El-P

You can't just think about it like it's all happening in a vaacum. Pro-wrestling has changed, but the world has changed too. Not only people have seen everything imaginable in pro-wrestling, including the worst nightmare-inducing stupidity (WCW 2000, Katie Vick), but they have seen everything period. You can't compare the reactions of the audience of today with those of yesteryears without comparing the audiences themselves and the context in which they are reacting. In the past, we can't ignore that US pro-wrestling was also deeply rooted in very strong nationalistic, basic views of good (the USA) vs evil (Japan, Russia, Germany and whatever country that was or has been a threat to its economical and cultural supremacy). That it was marred by obnoxiously racist and homophobic clichés. That it cattered to the lowest common denominator to get huge reactions. A lot of stuff that worked before just couldn't be done today. Although the scene of Mark Henry litteraly crying like a bitch while listening to the US National Anthem before his match with evil Russian monster Rusev really brings us back to these formulas of old. Whether it works or not is another matter entirely, but as fun as it can look as far as working a throwback angle goes, it's still kinda embarrassing to get this kind of stuff in 2014 and I don't see how anyone can enjoy it apart from looking at it from a meta-pro-wrestling point of view. I mean, this kind of stuff wouldn't fly in any half-serious TV show or movie today without being justifiably ridiculed. And what does it say about the pro-wrestling fans of today ? Are they really "smarter" than the redneck of the old days, or are they just more informed and saturated at the same time ? Anyway, just ranting... Also we can't ignore that not *everyone* was a great crowd manipulator, and that, like it's been said, the idea that the workers of yesterday were all those amazing guy who would deeply analyse the crowd reactions and adapt their match on the fly is vastly a bunch of bullshit that the old guys like to tell. We can watch the tapes. A lot, a whole lot of matches were boring, ultra basic stuff that only worked because the audience hadn't seen shit. Yeah, it was maybe smarter, but it was also much much simpler. We only remember and rewatch the good stuff. The bad, the hideous stuff we would rather forget, and compared with the bad stuff of today, in term of working, yeah, it looks even more embarrassing. And I'm the guy who doesn't like how current wrestling works and is presented.

Really good promo, but the killer is the altercation with the granny at ringside. This was hilarious and Hogan was great here.

Hell, get Francine. She was around for the whole time and she probably had more interesting stuff to say since she wasn't getting wasted every night and saw everything that happened in that damn company. And was involved in a shitload of major angles too.

Saturday Night was so frustrating, these match just don't amount to anything. The action is nice, but… Pretty much all the luchadors were wasted in WCW.

Awful angle to follow another awful angle. Yeah, this could be part of my Death of WCW thread. The more we come close to Starrcade, the more it's obvious the company had already jumped the shark. Pitiful.

Larry has been really good all along this angle, cutting strong promos, and Bischoff is efficient here too. The flyer are a nice touch, good trolling from the nWo. The shit's on.

The matches themselves are always unwatchable, but the ending of the 96 one is actually really good. Just fast forward until the last ten guys are in the ring and from there it's really well done.

What Dan said. Oz ! The bitchiest.

The booking of Madusa in WCW in 97 just made no sense. They build her as the ace of the promotion fighting against the evil japanese devil Hokuto, but she never even got the belt and finally lost a retirement match and said goodbye, never to be heard from again until she was brought back as part of team Savage two years later. Just odd.

You gotta love Savage. He jumps right into the arms of the Giant. Then he gets a Diamond Cutter. Then a chokeslam. Then gets eliminated. Outside of that, yes, the Giant looks totally blown up. And the ending is complete garbage, I mean 1999 like garbage. Hogan gets to bodyslam the Giant and Diamond Cut DDP. Of course. The announcer think Sting is 7 feet tall. Well, if it had been Barry Windham, maybe I would have popped somewhat, only because it would have been a nice and idiotic throwback. Complete utter garbage. WCW has totally jumped the shark already. You can see whatever great build they did before for Hogan vs Sting was gonna end up in the crapper eventually in the end. Scott Hall winning made no sense either and was only a way for Hogan to eventually cut his evil promo in the beginning of 1998 : "The title doesn't matter, Hall can manage that stuff.". Awful awful awful.

Ditto. And it's yet another nostalgia buil-up with a 50 year old guy who retired more than ten years ago. But that's what WM has become anyway. Since Taker will most probably never work again, they have to rely on the last few huge names they can still drag from their last golden era. It won't be pretty once they really all get too old to show up.

Good match with nice psychology and selling on both part. The WCW locker room emptying to jump on the nWo guys is fun until you realize it doesn't mean anything and it's rather just a way to show a ring saturated with bodies and remind that WWIII is the following Sunday. The nWo really has obliterated WCW during that show (and the previous ones) to a ridiculous degree.

Would have been useful sometime in 1996 before Rey and Psychosis debuted.

Rather pathetic.

Didn't he get in trouble with WWE at some point when he was posting really harsh stuff about Trip & Stephy on his website or something ? He was very active and bitter (and hilarious at times) for a while and then all of a sudden just stopped talking about WWE (or anything current) altogether.

Funny as hell. Well done. Bischoff is such a sleazeball, you want to slap his face, especially when he's doing the pause at the end over Larry's fallen body. Good heat for Starrcade coming up in a month. WWIII really seems like an afterthought already.

He had a fun match with Savage the previous week. Second segment, second nWo appearance. Well, at least he mentionned he didn't want any help, so there's no reason for WCW guys to defend this former nWo traitor for now.

I can't praise Rude enough here, and WCW did a masterful job with this segment (see, it's 1998, they suck two weeks in a row then deliver the good stuff), totally embarrassing WWF in the process. First Montreal reference on WCW TV, but unlike the upcoming ones, this was very effective because Rude was too smart and too good of a promo to fall in the usual trappings. He bashes Michaels (wonder what Nash & Hall thought of that; they were holding the fake tag team belts and Syxx is out injured at this point) and McMahon, but in a way that always comes back to put over Bret, who's supposed to join the nWo, then takes the attention to the nWo and then to the Stinger, which brings back memories of old. Great promo, and the work before and after (from Hall especially) were building up their respective feuds. Bischoff is in heaven listening to Rude. Really good segment.

If that's the case (and you're most probably right), what was the rationale for Justin Credible doing 2000/01 then ? Well… It's not like KC has been on fire lately anyway with a few exceptions like the Bret Timeline (and soon the Martel one which looks great on paper).

I thought the same thing. Oh, our poor selves.

It's the 80's WWF state of mind. Babyfaces are all the best of friends. Even if one of them only turned a few weeks before.

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz…. They couldn't get Corino for any of their Timeline ? Really ?

Well, I sound like a broken record, but Sting who saved DDP and Luger countless times this year is getting beat up, and no one comes to his aid. Luger and DDP were just there a few minutes ago !! Fuck, those nWo beatdowns were ridiculous at this point, and WCW looked like a bunch of shitheads. Really, the whole WCW vs nWo feud was dead. The nWo had won. The peak of the feud was Luger winning the belt on Nitro. After that point, there was nothing but personnal issues (Flair vs Hennig / Giant vs Nash / Sting vs Hogan) and no one gave a shit about WCW anymore expect Larry Zbyszko. From that perspective, it's kinda obvious why Sting and Luger eventually joigned the Wolfpack in 98.

All of a sudden, the booking fell apart on top, leading to the godawul Piper vs Hogan Age in a Cage match, terrible mistakes that would never have been done before, nWo oversaturation on Nitro, counterproductive promos (Bischoff and Hogan basically promoting Sting's movie) etc... And once in a while, a pretty damn good show. Just like in 98. WCW just doesn't look like the killer promotion it had been from Spring 96 to the Summer of 97, at all.

Rewatching all this stuff in context, 1998 actually began in late October/early November 97. No wonder Starrcade 97 was a failure.