El-P

After the last two weeks, this has been a great rebound episode, which felt like what AEW should be. The Adam Copeland bit was good I thought, and it did not take the focus out of the Nick Wayne/Christian vs Darby Allin feud later on. This is absolutely inspired by Owen/Bret, with the big brother/little brother kinda relationship, one having been more successful than the other and always there for him, and the little brother being a jealous and bitter little shit was is only now having his share of big time success. As long as we're not going into "Adam Copeland is bigger than anyone in AEW" mode or that this feud takes the main focus of the show, why not if they do it in a compelling way (and there's more than enough real life stuff to make it that way). A Wardlow heel turn is the only thing that may made me care a bit about this guy. Schiavone is so valuable in that it's so easy to use him to get heat. He's so beloved, anyone treating him poorly will get a big reaction. Then again, when you have Lance Archer on the same show (I hope it wasn't just a one off to please the Texas crowd), I just wonder why the hell are we even talking about Wardlow in the first place and why he has been pushed and protected like he has, when much better monster workers have been around. The rest of the show was excellent, with three bangers (White/Penta, Shida/Sakura, Omega/Fletcher), very good interview segment (Callis), the usual fun Cole/Neck Strong/Kingdom vignette, a very fun Battle Royal at the end with good booking (the use of Dustin, the focus on Dany Garcia's eventual babyface turn, the Caster/Juice rivalry for the ring), a pretty fun Toni Storm vignette (they sure do love that pearl necklace joke, Maria Kanellis did it on ROH too), an excellent angle with Darby, Nick Wayne and his mom, respectfully and all (damn, they should go straight into TeleNovela shit in term of directing in the future, yeah, let's pick up stuff from Lucha Underground !) and of course the stuff no one is talking about and I'm baffled, Sting announcing his retirement (gotta love the reaction to Hogan's name, not so much the reaction to Flair's), which they should make the biggest event possible. Dropping the roll of coins immediately was wise. And yeah, Jay White is absolutely the guy who should take the belt away from MJF. Cole was the right choice before, but there's no telling when he's coming back, again, and how he's gonna be doing in the long run with such a banged up body. White is a long term plan, he's a brilliant worker, and he's gotta be established as a main-event player. A heel run with him on top would be so great. I do enjoy a lot the fact MJF sees it coming from everywhere, White, Joe, Omega. I prefer when characters are not stuck in only their own little world and that there is an entire ecosystem with interactions from different people and crews together, that's one thing that fun was about WCW at its peak too.

The expansion of the G1 has really hurt the content, because in the end it doesn't change there's only a handful of guys who can win it, so it's just adding NPC's for the heck of it. It totally dilutes the tournament. Of course it's been done so it's less tough on the workers bodies, so from that point of view, it's understandable, the G1 was hell. Bullet Club I guess is still selling loads of merchandise, which is why they don't want to end it. If not, then it's just Gedo being way too conservative/lazy/stuck in his ways. That being said, if the new genius ideas are stuff like TAKA Michinoku's awfully named "Just 5 Guys" (oh, the irony because SANADA absolutely comes off like "Just One Guy" as opposed to a world champ level guy, he's been such a bust in this role), keep the Bullet Club going, really. Plus the current faction really has some good young foreigner workers. David Finlay is what he is, he's not coming off as a main eventer at all, and he's a big step down from the previous leaders, but he's doing a fine job at it. Meanhile, the Copperbox show was quite a load of quality wrestling and fun. Bad audio notwithstanding, which does hurt some matches, both main events especially. Well, hurt their perception, but of course Ishiii vs Takagi was awesome (Ishii looks older by the day, yet his work remains all-time great level, it's incomprehensible at this point) and Ospreay vs ZSJ was probably some of the best counter-wrestling I've ever seen. Just ridiculous, never seen before stuff. Ospreay is probably the most ridiculously versatile wrestler ever, and not on a small scale either, he's versatile at the biggest main event scale possible. He can do everything, and can do everything better than most. His last two years are possibly the greatest I've ever seen. I sure hope I get that Danielson match in the upcoming months, because as of now that's probably the last biggest dream match that's not happened yet. ZSJ has also been peaking at the same time so when stars align, just enjoy it while you can. You could see how much it meant for Ospreay too after ZSJ kissed him on the nose of something (yeah, he did, ZSJ be ZSJ), he was visibly emotional. The sign with the Wembley Attendance being brought in the ring was quite funny too (for those who don't know, Ospreay had the Wembley attendance tattooed, before the controversy about the real number popping out).

I googled it. Ah ! They signed LIV Golf. Ya know, the bloodmoney sportwashing league. Hilarious. So fitting to host the company that had a Fox News sex pest immobile trashbag as its world champ.

So many more people now are gonna be excited about stuff like EC3 vs Thom Latimer for the prestigious NWA title now, how great is that ? The "territory system coming back" announcement was absolutely priceless (yiipee, they are working with... EC3 promotion, whatever that is, they are controlling their narrative that's for sure though). Nick Aldis must be livid he's not there anymore...

Since he's Rated R, they should nickname him Edgy. Edgy Adam Copeland. We call him just Edgy.

Yep. And he did so after buying the hottest new star in the business (and arguably the best heel of the time as his antagonist), who already had appeared in Rocky III thanks to Terry Funk, and who had the connection to Mr. T because of it too. Mr. T which was key in the mainstream success of WM, among other things (Cindy Lauper, which is an entire different story). The myth of the entrepreneur who had the instinct and the genius ideas and who started from nothing and bet everything he had and changed the world is, as always, complete bullshit. The Attitude Era was pure luck. Steve Austin never was supposed to get over and WCW self-destructed because of their own incompetence. How many "genius" creative ideas Vince really had over the years ? How many how his best ideas where actually Pat Patterson's ? How many truly shitty ones he had ? How many years of his company treading water despite being the #1 company in the US ? Vince is the most successful promoter ever, for many many reasons, but he is also wildly overrated in so many aspects. Not even talking about his outside of wrestling ventures of course.

While they're at it, they should go straight into WCW classics and find ridiculous ways to call him Edge, as was done with Ray Traylor when he was The Boss. "That's a big Boss, man !"

This is what is being talked about : An R-Rated Rebuttal ? What is he gonna do ? Say "shit, fuck, cunt, ass" and expose his dick ? This kind of gimmicky verbiage is exactly what you'd expect in WWE. Plus, what does R-Rated Superstar means in 2023 ? That came from the angle with Lita, right, when they were making out in a bed (didn't Lita said years later that she felt uncomfortable doing it too ?) 15 years ago. What is R-Rated about Adam Copeland in 2023 ? What does this means ? Probably more long-ass promo showing your ass to the hard-cam. Oh, well. I don't care as long as I get Omega vs Fletcher and Penta vs White. And Toni Storm in hopefully a good segment. Oh, and Nick Wayne's Mom too. I kinda like Nick Wayne's Mom. And I like that she's called Nick Wayne's Mom.

It's weird that it's not been discussed more. Vince basically already lost his power as far as creative goes what, one month after the fusion ? This is pretty big, since he basically came back and orchestrated his little coup for the sheer reason of remaining in complete power. Which I guess is a very good news for WWE fans as far as the product goes. But if I'm Nick Khan or Lesveque, I'd not feel super safe, it's obvious there's one guy who has the real power around here, and his name is not McMahon. This Emanuel guy sounds like a piece of work. Pulling out of the Saudi deal after they murdered and dismembered a journalist in an embassy, then going back because, hey, no one really cares and other companies are doing it so why not us ? He won't give a fuck cutting anyone if the results aren't what he expect. You can always find someone more cynical and powerful and you. Also, one day, it will have to be told how the Vince story is a lot of embellishment. The guy was the most privileged pro-wrestling promoteur in the game. What made WWF the #1 company in the world is a mix of luck and predatory tactics. Vince is not as incredibly smart as people think he is, and as we are being told he is for 40 years by the suck-ups (hi Brucie). The idea that he got kinda fucked out of his power one month after he sold his company is pretty fucking funny.

Oh, you mean having a match named "The Greatest Match Ever", editing galore notwithstanding ? And I don't even dislike Adam Copeland, apart from the shitty spear and his goofy bulging eyes. I'm fairly indifferent and I think he's one guy who probably has been rather underrated around these part, probably. But I'm just, well, not that interested in watching Adam Copeland in AEW (or Adam Copeland period). Randy Orton playing full fledge entitled "WWE LIFER" gimmick, complete with total douchebagy attitude and Mick Foley anti-hardcore style trolling kinda in-ring work would have been a whole lot more interesting actually. The attitude toward Copeland from the established AEW stars should be "Hey, welcome to the real deal, your status don't mean shit in here, and we wrestle on another level entirely, do you think you can hang with us, so-called legend ?". That's how AEW should positioned itself, always, as the realest place (and the coolest place).

I never watched his WWECW stuff, I gave up on my WWECW watch years ago before I got to the good parts, but It's striking how much of the current Christian Cage is pretty much the evolution of his TNA character. And really, he's even using his TNA music theme. Speaking of which, Metalingus doesn't help my perception of Copeland in AEW's. It's a pretty hard reminder of the John Cena days in WWE, the peak of Edge's singles career, and it's also a really shitty stereotypical 00's, behind the time WWE style generic nu-metal. Yeah, I've seen this explanation before, but really, he's on TV. Him turning his back on the hard cam makes him look like a complete amateur. Funny thing, I thought Booker T in TNA was not nearly as bad as he was accused of being. Then again I was never very high on Booker to begin with, so maybe there's that too. But he was fairly amusing when he got into full King Booker stuff even in TNA. But yeah, the bolded part. Metalingus, doing the exact same maneurisms during your intro you've been doing all the WWE singles career, dropping WWE references likes you're some old guy who starts every sentence with "Back in my days" (you know the kind).... There's something to be said about AEW supposedly being an alternative. Not just "the other big wrestling company", but, an alternative, in that it offers something different to an audience who doesn't care about WWE. And yes, sadly, the audience is much more split with WWE now than it was when it started and when it was hot (hey, wonder if there's a link there... hum...). But still. I know that as someone who DOESN'T CARE about WWE and DOESN'T WANT to watch WWE stuff, this kind of stuff, like I mentioned after the 4th Anniversary show, it a legit put-off. So yeah, jury's still out, but I sure hope the focus gets on White vs MJF as the main event of the next PPV.

No offense, but you realize that talking point has been around for like at least 15 years now ? Yeah, good call, I heard that too. Good for him, the guy was talented and I would guess he only got better since he was in MLW years ago.

I gotta say this about Copeland, he moves quite allright for his age. I never realized before he was ten years older than his tag partner. Never realized he was that much older than Jericho too, that's kinda odd. He's like, almost the same age as Sting then. Something is not adding up... Oh wait, I'me being told he's actually 49. Holy fuck. That's why it's better to be ugly than good looking, at least it last forever. Time is a bitch, uh ?

You've got a point there. It's like he does not even understand who Nash was referring too back then. Also, Copeland walking around while talking and more often than not just having his back on the hard cam triggers the fuck out of me. And when Tony or Renee is holding the mic, INTERACT you bunch of dumb fucks, instead of grabbing the mic and telling them to hit the bricks and cut your long-ass promo for 15 minutes like you learn to do "the right way". WWE style is so fucking lame. Just get on with the program already or punch someone in the face backstage and get fired. I did get a kick out of Myron Reed and Jake Crist being security guards. Maybe they'll work the ROH tapings ? But who was the douchebag in suits ? Just a poorly thought out segment, really, and reeking of WWE-lite (Ricky Starks being the *only* guy of the bunch not coming from WWE too)

Skye Black Hart. Would be fitting. I love this angle though, and I've been loving to see Skye Blue grow from that enhancement talent back in the Daily's Place days to where she is now, she has improved a whole lot. That House of Black mist really is working. Also, Willie Mack on TV makes me happy. So does old-ass Chris Daniels, always looking good.

I'm eagerly waiting for the "These young workers don't know how to be stars and don't listen to advices" interview, which will sent all the old geezers to heavens they can't reach anymore through more healthy means. I wonder if, ironically enough, Adam Copeland will end up being the beginning of the end for me and AEW. Nah. As long as Omega, White, Danielson, the Bucks, FTR and the rest of the crew delivers bangers after bangers, I'm still there. But I've never felt so much TNA vibes before, not even close. And I don't mean post 2018 IMPACT. I mean TNA. You don't want a special reviewing thread on PWO from me, Coach TK, do ya ?

Wow , yes of course, obviously. But I answered thinking about guys who actually had some great matches, not dogshit workers (and dogshit human beings) like Glen Jacobs.

More late WCW/TNA feel, with references to WWE as where the huge stars are/were. CM Punk kinda did it too at one point and it was bad also. This is why WWE lifers aren't a very good idea either way you slice it. I had no preconceived feelings either negative or positive about Copeland showing up, but between the spotlight being put on a feud between him and Christian, which reminds everyone that "Hey, these guys were big during the Attitude Era 25 years ago" and stuff like this (beautiful combo of Kevin Nash idiotic phrasing and namedropping the biggest star in the world who was just on WWE TV a few weeks back), I feel AEW gets in a very dangerous path now, and something I'm really not interested in. I feel AEW has officially entered the "These guys used to be in WWE" phase, and this is exactly what they should have avoided, the least of which right now. Hopefully they correct this trajectory very fast.

The fact Flesh Gordon and his crew was around in the 80's and 90's doesn't mean it was part of the popular culture in any way shape or form. TF1 had a bunch of episodes in 1988 and 1991 for a few weeks at about midnight during the week. Pro-wrestling in French popular culture was non-existent. It was a thing of the past, of the 50's and 60's, which is also the period referred to by Eddie Carpentier on WWF shows, because that's what he knew. That's when my father as a teenager was sneaking in with his friends to watch some L'angle blanc or Le bourreau de Béthune. The closest thing to Flesh Gordon getting pop culture "credency" was his appearance on one episode of "Strip-tease", which is amazingly cringe (because that was what the show was about). Pro-wrestling in France was thought of something from the pre-Mai 68 period. Lino Ventura was the big movie star that used to be a pro-wrestler in the post-war period. Robert Duranton's most famous thing ever is probably his appearance on the classic comedy "Le Corniaud" in one scene alongside Louis de Funes in 1965. Did pro-wrestling disappear in France in the 80's and 90's ? Obviously not. I saw Flesh Gordon, Zephy, Jesse Texas and some other guy (don't remember who) at a festival in around 1991, wrestling in a ring set-up in the middle of a fucking harbour. Yes, a floating ring in the middle of the water I mean (before FMW did it, hey, here's FMW again). They were around. Were they part of the popular culture, in the sense of most people being at least aware of them ? Hell no. Was it relevant in term of keeping a scene alive. I guess, to an extent. You can find a bunch of names who came to France at this period. Hell, you can find Flesh Gordon vs "Future PCO", which makes the six degrees of separation game quite mind-blowing, really. So yes, it existed. It sure did. Was it relevant to French popular culture overall ? Nope. And really, neither was WWE before the Catch Attack era in the late 00's (although they did a few big shows in France during the Hulkamania days because Canal +, despite being much smaller in term of audience, was also very much the hype of these years, but WWF did not come to France for years after 1993, whereas they were all over the UK and Germany). That was the peak of pro-wrestling in French pop culture in the last 50 years. In 2013 not one but two French pro-wrestling movies were released. One as an art-house homage to the "old-school" of the 50's and 60's. The other one a mainstream comedy directly inspired by the popularity of WWE then.

Damn. I actually posted this match almost ten years ago on this very board. Probably late 80's judging from Flesh Gordon's wonderful outfit and overall look and shape. Also, Flesh Gordon is the one doing the announcing here, pretending he's not Flesh Gordon. So he's putting himself over while pretending to be just an announcer. Carny mofo. Well, I dunno if it's been posted on this thread before but, for something different (or not so much considering the latest dramas) and absolutely offensive, here's some EWF genius, which was showed both on one of the 1991 TF1 shows (the very first I believe) and Eurosport : Gaby Lailee vs The Kapo Woman. YEP. How about THAT for a gimmick ? And of course Gaby is native american squaw or something, because why the fuck not.

It was pretty much dead in popular culture way before that point anyway. WWF on Canal + was only a "niche" thing also (which did not prevent WWF from drawing in big arenas like Bercy of course, because WWF), because Canal was a crypted channel you had to pay to get sports and movies (and pro-wrestling... and porn). Only a limited amount of people had access to it. The high point of popularity of modern pro-wrestling in France is in the late 00's with the Catch Attack show on AB1, which is why the French wrestling community is pretty much WWE centric and was at its peak during the Cena/Orton/Edge/Jeff Hardy stuff.

He was basically the exact counterpoint to his babyface acting, which also was cartoon dogshit, really. I always thought Hollywood Hogan was the perfect iteration of the character, since Hogan was always a piece of shit at heart anyway. Even as a babyface, his in-ring style was bullshit, with back scratches, threats to the referee and cheating galore. Perfect guy to represent Reagan's USA, really. As far as his in-ring stuff during the nWo era, some was really bad, but he did a very good job carried the corpse of Piper around at Starrcade, and by 1999 I'd argue he was better than Flair. Yep, I said it. Which is kind of a backward compliment anyway, since Flair in 1999 was yikes, but still. That being said, tons of stuff was really bad too, but I dunno, I'd rather watch Hollywood Hogan rather than Hulk Hogan anyway. Well, I'd rather not watch any Hogan anymore at this point, but, oh well.

I was talking about the match in Switzerland, Zefy vs Richard. Then again, maybe even this one is early 00's despite the font and the look of the people around. It's the Swiss countryside after all (yeah, sorry Claudio). I had not watched this thread in a long time, since it was all about stuff from the 60's and stuff. The most shocking thing to me is not that there was actual pro-wrestling on Antenne 2 in 1985 still (I was way too young to know though), but that Bernard Menez had been a guest announcer. Bernard fucking Menez. Also, no wonder it had been washed away clean by Canal displaying WWF programs. Jeez, it was soooo franchouillard. I almost can't bare.

In the last 30 years, probably not. Especially since his best and most famous in-ring work came after his physical peak (so he only worked a very limited schedule), which happened before the notion of having really good matches on top got almost systematic in WWE (basically with the 00's, whatever one think about what WWE considered really good matches then). Bob Backlund was only 43 years old when he made his comeback and was presented as a relic from a bygone era. Seems totally crazy these days.