El-P
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Everything posted by El-P
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Trying to proove how "cool" I am on a pro-wrestling board arguing about a dead japanese pro-wrestler being pimped as a great one years ago. Feel the coolness factor. Seriously, let it rest. I will certainly do so. You made a hyperbolic statement, I just put it in perspective, then you made it personnal taking about "gimmick" and "schtick" and "ego". -
The G1 Climax 98 is a great showcase for Hashimoto's talent and character.
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I'd have to see more of Fuji in his prime (which I will do eventually when I get sick of WCW). Probably the only one that could compare as he was really great at one point. Stylistically I'd rather watch Hash any day though. Or Choshu.
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Nice side-stepping. Still no reply on your comment being ridiculously hyperbolic ? Yes ? No ? I guess not. Oh, that's a nice one. Taking about schtick, understand that you can't possibly "discover" every damn great wrestler ever. I get your frustration. I haven't watched puro in years, and old school NJ in probably a decade. To me Hash was the best New Japan heavyweight ever.
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Nice one. I've only been around for the last 14 years. Not that's it's glorious or anything. (BTW, when did I say he was pimped at the level of the AJ boys or Liger ? Oh, yeah, I didn't.) Anyway, Hash *only* finished 24 on the Smarkschoice GOAT poll (in 2006). Yeah, one of the most underrated wrestler that ever lived. Feel the sense of hyperbole. You didn't say it because it's never happened. But it should. Because he's better than all of them sans maybe Kawada That's your opinion. And even with that opinion that doesn't make him the most underrated wrestler that ever lived by a long, long, long shot. The guy has been pimped as a great wrestler foverer. (nice no-sell of the GOAT poll result too)
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Nice one. I've only been around for the last 14 years. Not that's it's glorious or anything. (BTW, when did I say he was pimped at the level of the AJ boys or Liger ? Oh, yeah, I didn't.) Anyway, Hash *only* finished 24 on the Smarkschoice GOAT poll (in 2006). Yeah, one of the most underrated wrestler that ever lived. Feel the sense of hyperbole.
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I guess it's time to pimp one of the all time great New Japan heavyweight again.
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Since when ? The day I stumbled onto puroresu I heard about Hash as being a great fucking wrestler. Even when the New Japan heavies weren't pimped at all, Hash was the exception to the rule because he was working a stiffer, harder style akin to the AJ guys which were the references back then. I love Hash, he's been a favourite of mine for ever, but it's the first time I've heard of him being "underrated". But hey, if people have forgotten how great he was these days, he should be put back into the mix yesterday indeed.
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And don't forget he worked 90 minutes match everyday in the 80's.... Gotta love those old carnies.
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That's true. But Bret was a much better worker than Shawn anyway. Not even close actually. Then again, I don't want to get into yet another thread about Shawn freaking Micheals.
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I agree with this 100%. The stretch from late 96 to late 97 is probably my favorite era in wrestling. The same here. For someone who was not supposed to be a very good promo, Bret Hart killed it during that period character wise. Working with Austin brought him up to a new level (and vice-versa).
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Last I've seen of Bret was during my 1998 WCW watch a few time ago, and despite the horrible booking he has to suffer through, I was surprised how much I enjoyed him once he effectively turned heel. His character of a complete hypocrite and conniving bastard was the best stuff on WCW TV for a while, and he delivered the two best Luger matches in years on Nitro. Also worked a very strong match against DDP, and cut a lot of good promos. Despite being the ultimate WWF babyface for the post-Hogan, pre-Austin generation, Bret's best work actually came from working heel, and it showed in WCW too. I loved him in the 90's, he was my favourite wrestler back then, and on rewatch and with time, and although I see his flaws, I still enjoy him a lot.
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Actually, Eric Bischoff did a pretty good cover up for this on a Worldwide show, saying that Vader doesn't beat his opponent with just one move, he does it with an accumulation of big moves and beatdown until his opponent can't take it anymore, which was a way to say that Hogan kicking out of the powerbomb didn't mean that much since it was the only move Vader did to him. Anyway, very good match, a top 5 match for Hogan in the 90's for probably. Hogan work reasonnably hard although not nearly as hard as he could, but Vader makes up for it despite working visibly lighter than he does usually. I really don't mind the finish because Vader kicked out of the legdrop at one, and Hogan stayed down after the powerbomb for 10 solid seconds. Made Vader look really strong, just like Hogan having to resort to chairshots to beat him down earlier on (although it's a rather shitty babyface move, but that's Hogan for you). Ric Flair was intense in his run-in like Loss said. Really good stuff all-around to cap-off a pretty bad PPV overall (only Savage/Sting vs Bubba/Avalanche was good, while you had to suffer through horrible matches like Dave vs Kevin Sullivan, Duggan vs Buck, and yet another "Dustin against a boring and bad worker from the Studd Stable in Barry Darsow" match. Poor guy, he was supposed to get the world title at some point in 1994 if Hogan hadn't showed up, and he's been wasted for a year now, Goldust can't happen soon enough to salvage his career at this point)
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Exactly right. Goldberg was hardly losing steam due the streak at the end of '98, and in a pretty great place as a draw considering that they pushed him and the title beneath Hogan all fall until Starrcade. But it was Nash's turn so there you have it. I wonder if the Goldberg of a couple years later would've handled things differently and been as quick to take the loss at that point. Agreed. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Goldberg would have done big business for a while, and signs of decline would have been the trigger to change the way to book him. Goldberg was never the same after the loss, because a big part of the appeal was the streak and the fact no one could beat Goldberg. What they should have done is use him a lot less on TV to make each of his matches special. And still have him win at the end. They had found a golden goose. They killed it. Along with the promotion.
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Agreed. Hogan absolutely sucked during this period, and they ran exacly zero angle on TV to build the match after the abortion that was the Clash post-match. Flair does a better job building interest for that PPV in one promo that they did since the beginning. Flair can't get back in the ring too soon at this point to me.
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I hate that stupid rule of the title only be on the line for the first 15 minutes, especially since it was only used to get convenient non-title-winning pinfall like this one. Randy Savage was 43 at this point, and was still more than able to deliver good matches and look like a superstar. Yep, Vince totally missed the boat while building his "new generation" with guys mostly over 35 anyway and putting Savage on the side because he was "too old". He doesn't have the explosiveness he had 10 years earlier of course, but he was still a very solid worker able to convey urgency, take huge bumps on occasion and work nice sequences. Arn and him really don't work the same style at all, but they successfuly make it look like a real struggle. Good sequence at the end. Savage was a giving wrestler in the ring, and it shows here, as his status could have allowed him to eat Arn up. I still like Savage as a heel much better, especially at this point of his career, but watching him go through this pre-Nitro period will be one of the most interesting thing in 1995 to me.
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Seriously, how fucking stupid Hogan was ? He simply killed his feud with Vader in the post-match. It's dead. He took the powerbomb and got up no-selling it. Vader is a chump. Case closed. Damn Hogan was horrendous. For all the talk about him being a smart or at least an "efficient" worker, there are tons of occurence like these which showed Hogan was a dumb fuck who was just feeding his own ego. Like the reviving elbow wasn't retarded enough. Hogan shitting on two major finishers in the same match. Amazing. It gets up there with the Fingerpoke of Doom in godwaful infuriating Hogan moments. How can Savage could agree to be Hogan's bitch during his entire career is something I just don't get.
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Good match, with Tenta being really efficient again. I wouldn't go to "great", but I totally agree he was a damn good monster worker. He's totally carrying those Sting matches. The post-match is a case of Gene sucking badly, throwing Big Bubba Rogers name for absolutely no reason before Trailor alluded to it. This third name and gimmick change really hurt Trailor, he's already lost a lot of steam with the Guardian Angel gimmick.