El-P

Since I'm not actually watching the current product, with very few exceptions, but still am interested in what hapens in wrestling, this stuff keeps me connected to the current scene, so yeah, I would put it N°1. Why not. It's been a long long time now that I have no illusion left about wrestling, so why not have fun with the goofballs that are all around. Depends of the thread, sometimes it goes nowhere, and sometime it produces tons of interesting comments and goes into several unexpected directions, with people giving historical perspectives for instance. I enjoy that. Match reviews, this is what got me into talking with people online. And at this point, I'll admit I don't care that much for it anymore. For several reasons. _I'm not participating in any project that goes on for very simple reason : I don't have money to spend on wrestling, and there is an amazing amount of stuff you can get for free. My hard drive is chockfull of stuff I barely have time to watch. So I'm not really getting deep into the yearbooks threads (only comenting from memories) although they look absolutely great to be honest. _The older I get, the more neutral I become and don't wan't to spend hours arguing about this match being great or sucking. My tastes have evolved quite a bit also, and they have mostly widened. Not to say I enjoy everything, it's far from being the case, and I think some wrestler pimped as great around some place do suck pretty hard, but I have a more relaxed approach to it. _I'm also getting lazy, and don't feel like writing about every good match I watch. I'm currently going through WCW 1990, and I could write a lot more about what I think of it, but either don't find the time or the will to do so. HOF discussion honestly never cared for in any way of another, although I enjoyed reading the old Gordy lists at tOA back then. So yeah, I mostly enjoy behind the scene talks and gossip, a way to still follow what happens, as I still care about the wrestling business somehow (either that, or it's atavism at this point), and the wrestlers/historical discussions.

I never thought Hogan was a cool heel. Nash & Hall were always trying to get some face reactions by being cool wise guys, whereas Hogan was going full fledge classic heel in interviews. At least that's how it came off to me. Plus I really enjoyed Hogan's first few big matches as a heel, it was a lot more fun to me than any face Hogan's match. Hogan vs Savage from Halloween Havoc 96, Hogan vs Piper from Starrcade 96, Hogan & Rodman vs Luger & Giant from BatB 97, all those were really fun heel Hogan matches.

So, who's gonna get fired so they have more money to waste with this ?

Yeah Tully Blanchard & Rick Rude are certainly up there. When you think of Japan : Dump Matsumoto. She was just HEAT personified. And in the same vein, Mr. Pogo was a great heel. Sadistic, cruel, would milk and tease the gimmick bumps to death (instead of say, running through them without thoughts which has been the case of 99% of the garbage workers since then), would show toughness but also get his ass kicked. Pogo was awesome. Greatest "workrate" monster heels ever : Vader, Aja, Bull. As far as wanting to be a tough heel, well, the posterboy for it is HHH. The guy just doesn't get what to be a heel is. If Bret hart took his character too seriously, then what to say about old Paul ?

I've got two : Jake Roberts Raven Can't think of more perverted, sick and unlikable characters. Raven was even worse in that he was a complete whiner, could be a tough guy but choosed to hide behing stooges and women. Could work some comedy without turning into complete ga-ga. Randy Savage was pretty much a terrific heel also. And Steve Austin circa 96-97 has to be somehwre on top.

A few years ago, Lance Storm also got injured working with Mark Henry and Henry got the same bullshit blame from online fans as being a careless worker. On a F4W podcast, Storm went out of his way to say it was just an accident and Henry wasn't a careless/dangerous worker, it was just a case of bad luck. He wrote about how guilty and bad Mark felt and how much of a nice guy Mark actually is: Contrast that with stories of RVD or Juventud injuring people because they were careless people and didn't give a shit about it. Mark Henry sounds like a genuine nice guy.

True, but he didn't pinball for Sting the way Abyss pinballs for well, everybody. No matter how often Vader left his feet for Sting, you never forgot that he was a giant grizzly bear who could kill Sting with one shot. True. Abyss is truly one of the stupidest and least effective worker I've seen.

This will be the "longuest" feud ever in the history of WWE if that happens. Lawler was Henry's very first opponent in 1996 (some IYH in September or October) if I remember correctly. 15 years in the making.

I haven't watch Raw in about 4 years. I'm seriously considering watching it for the Muppets. Last Raw I watched was the old-school one they did last year or the year before. But yeah, the Muppets might be enough for me to watch Raw once more.

Greatest ring wrestling announcer ever ?

That's hilarious.

Yeah, good for him, and good move from the WWE. Hopefully it really helps him and he can put his life back together. I have no idea if 3 months is enough in his case, but that's a positive step.

I don't give a shit about people liking this or that. Hell, I like Lawler. I don't think he's a GOAT candidate, but I like him quite a bit. You're right about one thing though, I'm not up in arms at all about this. To be honest, I couldn't care less.

Yikes indeed. I guess it's the first time a text message has been directly involved in a screwy pro-wrestling finish. The fact that Johnny Ace probably didn't use an Ipad still proves WWE is behind the times.

Del Rio already lost to Cena ? Yikes indeed. I'm not following closely, but it seems like Del Rio's potential as a top guy is damaged already... Punk losing to HHH, well... Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Was Nash involved ?

Interesting. The AWA is a huge blind spot to me, with the exception of a few Bockwinkle, Hogan and Midnight Rockers matches.

I realize I should have, but I thought it was obvious. My point was about the part where the babyface just no-sells the heel's offense as he's making his comeback, short-lived or not it isn't the point, which in most case is indicated by a visual gimmick : shake ropes, waving finger, droping singlet etc... It's pretty much the whole thing, no-sell of heel's offense + visual gimmick. Some love it, fine. It worked for their audience, fine. I never cared for that, it always annoyed me. That was pretty much it.

That's all well and dandy, but pretty ironic too, because at this point, the argument that Lawler has become a "concensus" great worker is thrown around quite a bit to squash any criticism. Not saying you're using it here, but I've seen it countless times. I guess the fact that more than one people agrees that Lawler is now a GOAT makes him a GOAT (see also : Fujiwara Yoshiaki). But the fact that more than one people agree that he did no-sell comeback routines from time to time means zilch and alien abduction believers because tha shall not invoque The King's name in vain, brothers and sisters, or something like that. The power of Democracy in a way, which is the tyranny of the majority over all minorities. Just a though...

Your capacity for not understanding not so complicated things is greater that I've given you credit for actually. Either that, or you're just full of shit, which I tend to believe is the case. _I said countless times now that I may be, probably am, wrong about the fact Lawler is doing a no-sell comeback routine all the time. _I think it's fair to say he did it, at least at times, enough for me to be annoyed by it at least. _I never implied that Lawler = Warrior. I said Lawer dropping the strap = Warrior shaking ropes during a no-sell comeback routine to me = annoying part of the match. That's pretty much it. I guessed it was obvious I wasn't extrapolating to the entire match, or even the finishing sequence which comes after the comeback. I guess nothing is obvious when you deal with dense people. Now, that people don't have problems with it is totally ok with me. Matter of taste. Some people love Hogan hulking up. Good for them.

I did not revert to anything. The fact that someone else agreed that Lawler was noing a no-selling routine *at least from time to time* just made me think I wasn't just making stuff up, because at that point I was too lazy to check it out. I never said that Lawler was doing it all the time after your long post, to which I replied I was maybe wrong. Read my response to Dylan, I concluded that Lawler was doing the routine, "at least at times", not "everytime", a point I agreed to be wrong about. But you said he was never doing it, ever, which seemed pretty odd to me. Funny from a guy who couldn't be bothered to read or understand a post I made a day before in which I said three times that I may very well be wrong after all. And yeah, I reiterate, I may very well be wrong about Lawler doing it all the times. Still, it doesn't mean he never did it either, which I illustrated. Well, pretty amazing uh ? Too bad, I have zero problem with admitting when I'm wrong. None. Don't give a shit. I'm not here to jerk-off my little ego. So yeah, about Lawler doing the no-sell routine *all the time*, maybe totally wrong. My bad. Mea culpa maxima. Well, that's too bad. Learn to love it, it's no biggie, really. I admit being a dick there, not problem admitting that either. I'm usually being a dick when people are dick to me. The fact that you mention "Lawler No-Sold All the Time" at least proves you don't read my post closely enough, since even after posted the video, I said that Lawler did it *at least at times*. Which is not the same as *all the time*, a point about which I'm probably wrong. Hey, I may suck at English, but I'm using little signs so that lazy people can understand the point I'm making here. Obviously not enough of an effort from me. Yeah, impressive stuff. Only you are the one being wrong here, because Jerry Lawler did a no-sell routine comeback, I posted the video. Now you can say it's not a no-sell routine comeback, and we'll agree to disagree on the use of this term like with Dylan. To me it is, and I explained why. When you get kicked and punched 5 time and you get revived from it, it's a no-sell routine comeback to me. Period.

That's entirely different. You never see Ricky Morton get up no selling a bunch of kicks and punchs and then make the hot tag. Ok. Watch the video : _Lawler is down. Idol kicks him once : Lawler doesn't sell it and get up like he's upset. _Austin kicks him a second time : Lawler no-sells it and then goes up on his feet. _Austin punches Lawler three times in the face, granted Lawler registers he's been hit but act like it didn't hurt him and act all pissed instead. Then Lawler proceed to punch Austin in the face several times. Lawler no-sold 5 offensive shots from Austin, two of which looked like they revived Lawler. Now, if you don't call that a "no-selling routine comeback", then nothing is a no-selling routine comeback. So yeah, you're a smart ass mentionning Lawler going back to selling *after* his comeback (and a ref bump), a point I never even argued against. Shit, even Warrior would sell during the post-comeback finishing sequence if it was needed (which wasn't often the case, but still). Just deal with the fact that Lawler, at least *at times*, did a no-sell comeback routine.

Yeah, be a smart-ass Dylan. It doesn't change the fact that he made a comeback with a no-selling routine, which is the whole point. I don't even know why I even bother at this point.

Because Jerry Lawler never does a no-sell routine during his comeback. Never. As illustrated from 00:42 and on :

Let's be precise : I never said Lawler was no-selling the entire match after his comeback. I said Lawler no-sells the offense that his opponent is dishing out during the comeback sequence. I thought it was clear from the beginning we were talking about *comeback sequence*. Not for everyone I guess. I dropped the Warrior's name just because to me, the dropping down the strap before the comeback is like Warrior shaking the ropes : a visual gimmick : "I don't care much for any comeback that consist of no-selling. Lawler dropping the strap equals Warrior shaking the ropes to me." I could have said "equals Sting hitting his chest", and this would have probably been less offensive to some sensitive souls.

Except for the times that he doesn't, which is all the time. This isn't about sacred cows. This is about you being wrong. Explain why you're right, or stop trying to front like you are. Ok son, read my last post back if you can understand the words. I think I said *3 times* something to the effect of "well, that's the impression I got, but maybe I'm wrong, and if that's the case, then I'm wrong". So at this point, you're just being a dickhead for the sake of it. Maybe you're not used to people acknowledging the fact that they may be wrong. And I'm not the only one saying that Lawler was hulking up, but you're no-selling that one. So my best guess is at this time you're just trolling me. So ease up, have a drink, and stop acting like a douche. Thanks in advance.