El-P

A shotei or a punch really are more "realistic" than 99% other wrestling moves.

Stan Lane's kick are just godawful. The more I watched the Eaton/Lane MX, the more I think Lane drags them down quite a bit. As soon as he tags in and does these kick I just cringe. Plus he as a strange way to stand, like he's getting off his horse, just awkward to watch. Plus the Fabulous Ones don't do anything for me.

Blasphemy. Liger slapping people is the greatest thing in pro-wrestling. I should watch that instead. Resulting in pinfall victories? Yes.

Blasphemy. Liger slapping people is the greatest thing in pro-wrestling. I should watch that instead.

No, the "Butch Reed is great" pimping went over my head based on his Mid-south work. I just don't see it at all. I know people who are pimping him don't refer to his late 80's, post mid-south days, although I also heard lot of "Doom is a great team" pimping over the years, and I never got that either. It really feels like another era was beginning. The first TV show of the year had a Dusty promo, JJ Dillon was around for a few weeks while Arn & Tully were already gone, and then, Dusty's gone, Dillon's gone, no more reference to the Horsemen. Also, Stan Lane is quickly getting more and more annoying. I was never a big fan, but watching "lots" of Stan Lane in a short timeframe really damages the opinion I have from this version of the MX. My opinion of Lane already went south after watching some Fabulous Ones matches, and now I can say that Lane really dragged the MX matches down quite a bit with his horrible offense. Man, can you imagine a MX version of Eaton and Pritchard instead ? It's strange that Bobby Fulton got so much shit over the years for being a "poor worker" in a great team, while he honestly is actually quite good, and Lane got a relatively free pass because it's the MX. Eaton was 90% of the reason the team was still excellent.

Really ? I don't know, it didn't struck me as very different from all the super deliberate pace Reed had in Mid-south. I could have used more offense from Reed and less chinlock sequences, but the match made perfect sense, Reed fed for Sting's comebacks really well, I thought it worked. Energetic Sting grounded by the big powerhouse works for me. I had no idea it was a very unpopular match. Again, I'm not buying the "Reed = great worker" argument I've heard in the last few years, but I still kinda enjoy his style.

How to damage a perfectly good card on paper : _book two shitty finishes in back to back important title matches in which the champion loses his belt by basically pinning himself _don't deliver on a stipulation that had been sold to you by two months worth of great promos That was the story of Chi-Town Rumble basically. _Rick Steiner vs Mike Rotunda : good match, and the first appearance on WCW TV of young (and sane at this point) Scott Steiner in the corner of his slow brother. Rotunda gets killed quite a bit and bumps his ass off for Steiner, who doesn't throw people around that much yet. Terrible finish with Steiner putting Rotunda in a sleeperhold, only to lay on the mat and pin himself while Rotunda goes out. Because Rick is slow. Yes, this is the NWA, "We Wrestle", but we still have shit finishes because of goofball gimmick personnality. Too bad. Which leads to : _Barry Windham vs Lex Luger : Windham at this point is up there with Flair and Steamboat, maybe even better. Sadly I think he's leaving soon to get wasted in the Widowmaker gimmick in Titan. He's also one the most gracious wrestler ever. The way he moves is absolutely amazing, he's like a panther. Great work by Windham, in pure barwling mode, who injures his hand on the metal post, actually blades it (I think), and sells the hell out of it. Luger works super hard at this point, which makes up for whatever limitation he has. Really good, intense match so it has to end with the infamous "german suplex in which one guy lift his shoulder at the last moment so the other gets pinned" shitty finish. Which wouldn't have been quite shitty if we haven't seen another champion lose his belt via self-pin just a few minutes before. Terrible booking here, which kinda ruins a really good match. _I don't know what the story was with Dennis Condrey, did the guy just vanished again, but he was MIA here, so instead of the final MX vs O-MX match, with Cornette & Heyman having to leave if their team loses, we get MX vs Randy Rhodes (who really was the lesser MX member of the four, by a huge margin) and Jack Victory. And now the loser of the fall must leave instead of Corny or Heyman. Huge letdown and way to fuck up with the stips. Best part of the match is Corny as a wrestler, who drops a great elbow and does a great face-in-peril. Rhodes gets fired, I say good riddance, he was just nothing special at all. Jack Victory "debuts" here as himself, after jobbing again earlier in the night under a hood. Was this guy paid double-duty every night ? Sting vs Butch Reed was good, although the über deliberate Reed style is a acquired taste to say the least. I never got the Butch Reed pimping as him being this great wrestler. Varsity Club vs Road Warriors was decent for a short bomb throwing match in 1989, although you get the feeling no one wants to really sell much for the others. And of course Flair vs Steamboat is just an all-time great match, worked at a terrific pace, super stiff, just everything looks great, on timing, at the right place. On the following WCW episode, Eddie Gilbert "introduces" Missy Hyatt. I chuckled at his little tricky promo. Gilbert was miscat as a babyface though, he was just a natural heel. It never struck me before I watched these WCW episodes how much he looked like Lawler, the way he talked, the way he carried himself, the way he moved. And just a gigantic promo by the debuting Iron Sheik, with great line of him namedropping all the wrestling promotions "AWA, NWA, WW whatever !". This promo stole the whole show.

Oh God. The most amazing thing is that there was a time TNA was actually pretty decent when Russo wasn't around, yet, after the godawful shit you describe, Russo still got rehired. AT one time I had the project of watching the weekly TNA PPV too. I may still do it. Morbid curiosity. Maybe not after all.

Who are you refering to ? I hope I won't hear some "being past your prime is a dated opinion" stuff. It's pretty easy actually. 88-89, Varsity Club years. And man was he not boring then, he was fucking good. Most boring wrestler of all time refers to a guy like Randy Orton and his endless series of clones. I don't think it's what I said. Terry Gordy was in much better physical shape in the mid'90's than he was ever before. But, as a worker, he was shot. Ok, it's probably not the best exemple since his brain was litteraly shot then. Let's say for instance Dick Togo, whose prime as a worker was when he was fat. In the 00's Dick Togo was in much better shape physically, but he was past his prime as a worker. Bull Nakano's prime was during the fat years. By 1995, Bull had slimmed down, but she was past her prime. So yeah, physical appearance has really nothing to do with it. Internal physical shape does though, as injuries have much to do usually with ending a guy's prime.

To me the sign that a worker is past his prime would be basically : _not working regularly at the level he used to _showing age and injuries by working slower, bumping less and scrapping classic moves that were always a big part of the repertoire _not delivering the same quality of matches on a regular basis _getting sloppy on occasion; getting lazy and working by the numbers matches where in his prime would have went the extra-mile

Watch Rotunda work in 1989 in the Varsisty Club and watch him work in 1993. Two different beasts. I think Rotundo may have been injured in the early 90's, some back issues. DiBiase probably peaked in the mid-80's, one can argue he was pas his prime already when he got to WWF. Flair in 95 was way past his prime to me. I'd say at best late 1992 was the ending months of Flair's prime, I guess some would say it was over after 1989 (which may have been his peak). It's not an issue of age really. You can be in your prime during a long time or a short time frame, depending of injuries, will to work, physical condition.

I'm glad I choose to watch WCW 1989 and not 1999....

It's called an accident. Why am I not surprised ?

Thanks for the answer. On the same show, the debut of the Samoan Swat Team, and man did they murdered two jobbers. Funny how I talked about the Demos offense looking weak and dull, and then I'm watching those WCW shows from 89 and there are the Road Warrior who just obliterate people, the Varsity Club who look a thousand time more brutal and vicious than the Demos ever did, and now the SST who were always awesome at working squashes. I have to mention that Jim Ross, who I think was much better here than during his UWF days (less screaming, less college sports references), really sucked here, mixing Fatu and Samu twice, and calling fatu's awesome splash from the top rope a "flying headbutt", then fumbled and uttered the word "bodyslam". Ugh... Totally forgot than Dan Spivey was a part of the Varsity Club at one point. Didn't quite fit the gimmick.

Who the hell was Vincent Young ? White guy with stache who did some acrobatics and breakdanced, with Los Gringos Locos looking long tights. Plus he got shit on by the studio audience, who cheered for jobber Trent Kight instead of the young debuting supposed star.

Oups, sorry then. Reading too fast, thinking too slow. Ouch.

Keep an eye out for Billy Gunn jobbing to the Road Warriors as Kip Montana. I will !

I have no idea where you got that impression form, especially since most posters on this board are older than on many wrestling boards. Hell, I sure watched all the Money Inc. there is to watch, and barely anything from Beer Money, for obvious reasons (TNA, argh !). Money Inc. was two guys passed their prime, Beer Money is two young guys probably in theirs. Oustide of the name, I don't see much similarities at all. Money Inc. didn't exactly set the world on fire and is pretty much a sport on tag team wrestling radar.

You mean the most recognizable fat ass of course. The man could work though.

Clash of the Champions 5 : Ricky Steamboat with his ugly baby in the arms. Ric Flair dressed like a pimp with 5 lovely young ladies in evening gowns. Hum... Steamboat kinda was a lame-ass face in this feud, even for the time period. I think the guys in the audience would rather be Flair, and the ladies rather be with Flair, so that let you with the support of the kids only. Well, it's 1989 and the southern audience, so Flair still gets mostly booed, but still, Steamboat is as uncool as it gets here. Also, Hiro Matsuda was the useless manager ever here. I din't understand why they thought he was needed to take the place of Dillon (who I guess left for the WWF at this time), Flair really didn't need anyone. Of course, depsite the über family man gimmick of Steamboat, the feud is pretty awesome. How many masked JTTS could Jack Victory work in one night ? Russian Assassin #2, Blackmailer... He was a trooper.

More look-alike jobbers on WCW in 89 : Mike Thor, looking like Jerry Lawler, complete with the one elbowpad and the punches (well, at least he tries).

It's not even nostalgia, I had never seen those before. My knowledge of WCW pre-Nitro eras is pretty much PPV's I watched online in the last 6 years. Never saw any pre 96 Saturday Nights. I don't think it's me getting older, I think it's wrestling turning into shit in the 00's, and watching a good fresh (to me) program is much more fun than try to go through those dull as dirt WWE shows or those retarded TNA cards.

Getting into WCW TV from 1989, and I get a kick out pf a lot of little things : the infamous Randy Hogan jobber who looked like Hogan with Savage's kneepads and boots; Dave Heath (aka Gangrel) as a young and fat jobber squashed by Abby. Despite the numerous squash matches, watching those old NWA episodes is so much fun nowadays. Great promos galore (Flair, Sullivan, RW, Cornette, Heyman), cool squashes from the Varsity Club (Sullivan was always an awesome squash match worker) and the Road Warriors, a few really good competitive matches. Why isn't wrestling like this anymore ?...

The mere fact that the company was called TNA is a joke that wrote itself. They couldn't think of an acronym that wasn't embarrasing to begin with ? One that would include the world wrestling and would not evoque tits & ass ?

Dixie Carter is a retard. It's disgusting that this man makes a living, and a good one at that, while he is fucking horrible at his job and has a proven record of being a disaster for the last 13 years. Life is unfair. Politics and cooptation > talent.