El-P

Who was "working holds" in WWF in the 90's ? Except for Bret and the combination figure-four sharpshooter, what was the great holds work in the WWE during that time ? Working holds in WWF was basically : chinlock to rest a few minutes. Kroffat could work holds as well as Malenko, except he was actually an excellent dickhead heel, but their style was indeed more suited to the all action go-go-go workrate style of Japan. The problem in WWF is that no one could work with them, with the exception of Owen, Bulldog, and probably Scorpio and Snow to an extent. Hearing the Godwinns say that working them was like "pulling teeth" is hilarious. Who was pulling teeth to get something watchable out of the others really ? Another problem is that WWF introduced tham as faces, and Kroffat has zero face charisma and can't do face-in-peril. He's either a simple great wrestling machine, or works like a dick workrate heel. But having him as a face was a big mistake. And Furnas is just a power guy with no distinguishable charisma, so again, while the audience would easily pop for his big spots, he's not gonna play face-in-peril. Snow wasn't linked to New Japan, and quite frankly I think the NJ link was as important as the ECW one to get Malenko/Benoit/Guerrero to WCW. Konnan was a big new star in Mexico, Rey, Juvy and Psic the talk of the day over there, with tours in Japan. Snow was just another indy guy who'd been around for ever without accomplishing anything.

I always liked Shane Douglas, and quite frankly, rewatching his entire ECW stint, my opinion of him only went up. From 94 to 96 (in ECW, as his work in WWF was just subpar, for various reasons), he was one of the best workers in the US. And even after his prime, he was really solid. He had an excellent match with Justin Credible in 1999 just before he left for WCW. I don't think the concensus thinks very highly of him, but to hell with the concensus. Also, 1996 Douglas smokes 1996 Michaels in my eyes.

In my mind Scorpio really is an ECW guy like Shane Douglas, that's where he shined the most. He went places and was featured before coming to ECW, but he peaked over there.

You know my opinion of Spike Dudley. Furnas was not a good single worker anyway, I thought the RVD match was widely overrated. I don't remember much about the Scorp one. And the Tanaka match was godawful because Furnas had no idea how to work with Tanaka, and Tanaka was supposed to work Kanemura which he had workes a hundred times already, so it's not like he was ready for a guy like Furnas. I maintain they would have been perfectly fine in WCW. Would they have receive a big push ? No. But they would have delivered in the ring because WCW allowed their workers to work. And their roster was infinitely deeper and better than ECW's. It would have been some good random fun.

Scorpio would have kicked major ass in WCW with Benoit/Guerrero/Jericho/Rey. I put Malenko apart because to me he was way inferior as a worker. Al Snow falls in that category also, and without a strong gimmick, I don't feel he would have made a huge difference in WCW. But probably much better than he made in WWF, which wasn't difficult. Furnas/Kroffat in WCW would have been awesome working with the Steiners and throwing bombs at each others. They would have been awesome working with Benoit/Malenko. WWF killed those guys. Kroffat was past its prime, but he was still a terrific worker, and Furnas was a bomb thrower that could toss around people like nobody's business. I don't think it's fair to judge Furnas/Kroffat from the few matches they had in ECW, they had to work with the freaking Eliminators and the pair of Sabu/RVD which was always difficult. Their work in WWF against Owen/Bulldog was excellent for the few months they were given some time and attention. My biggest regret during those years is that Kroffat/Furnas/Scorpio didn't jump in WCW between 96/99. They were totally wasted in WWF. As far as getting a better position in WWF, Scorpio yes if he had the "Radical" status after years of working WCW with the pack. Kroffat/Furnas, don't think so, they just would never fit, kinda like Steiner.

Remember about the on/off rumours during the early 2000's about New Japan getting a joshi division headlined with Kyoko Hamaguchi ? This was coming back regularly.

So, are people really paying to hear Brian Alvarez talk to his grandma ?

To me, his debut. He was freaking creepy. The Satanic gimmick was just over the top Russo bullshit. I remember the satanic skit with the Mideon sacrifice was one of the clear moments that just made me to want to turn away from WWF, it was just stupid. Of course "That was me all along" rendered things even worse, and Satanic Taker being allied with the evil corporate boss made him look like just another bad gimmick. God, I hated 1999 so much.

Ah ah ! I actually find this quite funny ! I would, but my hears aren't able to distinguish this particular one, not familiar enough to me. Did DDP have a strong Jersey accent ? The only american accent I'm really familiar with is the deep southern one. I can't say if someone is from New-York or Cali. I wonder if the differences are important (in France there are some extremely strong accent differences between north and south, east and west).

Ah, those goofy "rest of the world" people.

Nice to hear from you Schneider. Anyway. The point is, I don't need to google the Beatles, Outkast nor Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods. I see kids today wearing Nirvana T-shirt, and they were probably born at the same time Cobain shoot himself. And yeah tons of kids cried when Michael Jackson died. Despite the fact Jackson wasn't relevant at all during any year of their existence.

Pardon me but.... who is Bo Jackson ?

I know. I admit it was just a cheap knock on Demott, who I actually enjoyed as a worker. But as you said, it's not like anyone he would have trained became anything. And really, although great worker doesn't equal great trainer, I'm scratching my head at the thought of Lance Storm for instance, teaching people how to work : "ok, so this is how you throw a shitty punch. this is how you throw a dropkick in the corner that look like it wouldn't hurt a fly." Yea, I know, it's supposed to be a bunch of bullshit anyway. Actually it adds up to the idea that WWE really isn't "wrestling" anymore. Have you noticed how the WWE superstars's intervention are totally useless ? I was expecting Big Show to chokeslam some of these guys...

1 - spitting blood is cool because it shows the guy really wants it 2 - girls are supposed to be exactly as strong as 200 pounds guys and should go through the *exact* same training 3 - WWE workers are all able to stand on the top rope and do squats. Ask HHH, he can do it for hours 4 - wrestlers work injured and that's the bizness. Ask HHH, he tore his quad once, and he keep on going. 5 - Bill Demott who did exactly nothing but be a JTTS on Nitro, and who got a slight push when there was nobody else on the roster and when his ring-name was Hugh G Rection, is a great trainer. 6 - Luke has accomplished exactly zilch but is already as annoying as Shawn Micheals in 1995. 7 - Booker T. has his head deep into HHH's ass (cf 3). 8 - Trish Stratus looks not a day under 40. 9 - Guys with short hairs are the best. 10 - I wish there was a camera in Verne Gagne's camp back in the mid-70's Man, this show is kinda fun for Austin's usually great promos at the end and Demott being a dick, but otherwise, what a bunch of bullshit. Were the other edition the same kind of nonsense ? Anyway, it's still the first weekly WWE programming I'm following since I stopped watching RAW 12 years ago. I guess Austin is a draw.

Are you comparing a 1991 cartoon that aired for 4 months (from Wiki, I have obviously no idea what ProStars was) to the motherfucking Beatles ? That they don't know the Beatles ? They're ignorant young douches. That they don't know ProStars ? hum... probably nothing.

Same thing happened with me in Nara, Japan. With Zidane. Now try to picture a japanese guy who speaks no french whatsoever trying to utter the very unfamiliar (for a japanese) sounding name "Zidane". I don't care about soccer, but that was still funny.

Oh, they're all in the combat entertainment realm anyway...

I agree with this. Granted, I'm not big into sports either, but still, I have no idea who Wayne Gretsky is. The only name of baseball players I know are the ones who have been mentionned during wrestling programs. Ditto any US football players. When I was in highschool, basketball and the NBA were super over, so I knew the names of the stars. But baseball, US football and ice hockey are pretty much non-entity for the mainstream european audiences. Now, I don't think UFC is big either, but to say Wayne Gretsky is a bigger star in Europe than Bret Hart, who was pretty damn known in the 90's, is probaly a mistake. I guess so too.

edit...

I actually just rewatched this for the first time in like ten years, and it's without a doubt a top 10 match I've ever seen. Just amazing. And I had forgotten about *the* bump, both masterfully built and absolutely insane. And everything is perfect, the match and the production (well minus that explosion which doesn't happen, but is covered masterfully by Kudo), the intros, the post-match with Onita, just everything. A masterpiece if there's one.

Murakami. That's a shitty name of the past. Never got the appeal this guy seem to have at one point with the IWC.

Nothing could have prevented the downward spiral of New Japan. The seeds were there when they were doing bumper business. Yeah, the downward spiral really began in 1997 with the first Sasake-to-the-top push I think. 1997 was the year of the disaster for puro anyway. But still, it really killed Hashimoto, and that was the dumbest move they could have made at this point. Of course they would do even worse in the following years.

The matches sucked, Ogawa couldn't work a lick and it killed Hashimoto's aura. It really kicked off the downward spiral of New Japan in the 00's. That's what I remember abot those horrible matches.

Who are you refering to ? Guys who say "It's supposed to be fake" are the ones who are right anyway. Unless you're refering to Lance Storm of course, which in that case, yes, is it annoying. No its suppose to look good. Whether its fake or not is a secondary concern. What ? So if you punch a guy in the nose to make it look good then it's good work ? I'm sorry but it's completely stupid. Taking care of your opponent is not a secondary concern. This is a shitty indy mentality from guys who have watched too many japanese tapes without understanding the style and think kicking a guy in the head full force is good work. You have to make it look good of course, but also take care of your opponent. Really, this reminds me the saying "In the old days it was fake but the audience thought we were killing each others, these days they kill each others for real but the audience know it's fake."

Who are you refering to ? Guys who say "It's supposed to be fake" are the ones who are right anyway. Unless you're refering to Lance Storm of course, which in that case, yes, is it annoying.