El-P

Can't wait to see the next Matt Youtube video... Can't wait to see the next big announcement that will change TNA for ever...

Best Dixie Twit ever. It's amazing, on so many levels.

Well, of course, if you put it like that.

Oh my God, this one is going to be *really* pathetic :

Beating up someone is too rasslin' for Vince.

Totally agree on Luger, he was a strong, ambiguous character and his work was the best he's ever been. The three Luger stints I really enjoy are the 89 one, the early 96 one and the Total Package in late 99-00, one of the only bright spot of the awful Russo era. Liz & Woman in WCW were the most attractive women in wrestling ever. Flair & the Horsemen coming out with both of them was so right on every level. The gay porn video with the four JTTS was hilarious. Really, WCW at this time was going strong. It was so varied in what it had to offer, from old-school worker to the NJ3 to the mexican guys to the martial arts goofy stuff of Glacier feuding with Wrath & Kanyon to european guys, to the nWo angle. The package was a mix on tons of different things, and that's what made it so fun to watch to me. Bubba was fun, but man, his feud with D-Von was unwatchable to me.

I do think there's a Hogan vs Savage match from 89 in London post WM V, where Savage is with Sherri. Yeah, that would have been something else. I always hated the fact that Savage, no matter how and when, always ended up being Hogan's bitch, from his first WWF title win to his last WCW title win. Just annoying.

Out of the loop just doesn't scratch the surface. Resurrected ? The power of the urn I guess...

What ?

Wait, Paul Bearer is back ? Didn't they killed his character a few years ago ?

London cracking up when Hardy says he is a-ok is pretty funny.

Since when did Matt Hardy become such a mess ?

The term "vast majority" was used by Dylan when he said that the vast majority of the people watching the set were at best indifferent to Tiger Mask. I think a part, and maybe a good part, of that "vast majority" is influenced by a few trendsetters who have said for some time now that Tiger Mask sucked. All the people who watch the set post at the same board, which is like a small community, with its "leaders" of sorts, and there's no way these guys aren't influent on how people around them think about wrestling. Which is kinda natural in a way. Probably, but what is "entertainment" to begin with ? I do think there's a part of brainwashing effect in modern marketing campaign. An old comedian used to say "Listen to the same shit on the radio all day long, you'll end up buying it. You're not reasonnable people !" There's a lot of truth to that I think. On the other side of the coin, theres' also the snobbish attitude of following a "hip" trend despite the fact you don't actually really enjoy what's you're pimping, and also refuse to admit you do enjoy some "unhip" stuff. The two are pretty comparable to me, although it's always hard to demonstrate that people are under an influence (because it's something people won't admit). That is more about taste than trends though. And you can always use the "bad taste" card at someone, although I think it's pretty useless when we talk wrestling. When we're talking about music or cinema, there's also the infamous lowest common denominator which is often the reason why people like really shitty stuff. Of course. But it usually works very well. I agree, but there are reasons "why". And that's where the influence lies to me. And it's not necessarily negative either. I mean, for instance I can enjoy a band that I just wouldn't care for before because there's an emotionnal ties to it at some point. When you read a hundred posts about this kind of wrestling being good and this kind being bad, I think it can influence people on how they view, thus enjoy, the wrestling they are watching. I'll be the first one to admit at some points I was influenced by some people and some of my tastes were the results of it. I wouldn't go that far, plus all cases are different. Still, I do think when you're talking about objective masterpieces of cinema or music, that some people pretend to like it more because it's the accepted opinion than because of a genuine love for it. It's more obvious with some difficult stuff of course. I think anyone can enjoy "It's a Wonderful Life" so in that case, I don't think the trend effect plays a big role, if any. But as far as wrestling discussions, especially at DVDVR, I think it's obvious to me. Funny fact, a few days ago I recieved a mail from a guy that I haven't heard of for a few years. He used to post at DVDVR a long time ago. He apparently read some stuff there recently, and you know what he told me : "Since when did they start to hate moves and highspots?" I swear, it was really funny to then hear all the denial about how there's no "anti-movez" trend. Because if there isn't, it's still exactly how it seemed to a guy who hadn't been there for like more than half a decade and who's not involved at all in wrestling reviewing and such. Really ironic. But hey, it's no big deal to me. I'm not here to troll or cause trouble. I saw how the arguments got really heated fast, I'm not into that at this point.

OK then you have horrible taste in pro wres and you write huge TL;DR columns about it like you were getting a PhD in it that a handful people read and all of them are people who post on DVDVR (which is the worst board on the internet in terms of people with horrible tastes in pro wres). You sound exactly like me circa 2001. Well, I see this thing turned ugly in a heartbeat. For those who don't seem to get it, what I'm saying with trends, is that a handful of people are pimping some workers and a mass of posters follow. It's not that hard to understand, and I don't even see the issue about it. It's human, it happens in any kind of realm, music, movies, politics etc... Nobody said that you Dylan, were a follower. I'm not even talking about Chris Master since I haven't seen *any* matches by this guy. Just talking about trends. It's so funny to see you and a bunch of people deny it. QUite frankly, if I was a trendsetter, I would probably be kinda glad to be one. Well, probably not, but that's just me being me. But you get the drift, it's not even a "quality" judgement on my part, although sometime some trend just make my eyes roll (Takada hate for instance), it's just a simple observation.

I know, I feel the same way about Mark Henry and plenty of other workers who have lots of fans around various places. You just stated your point in an awkward way, as if Watching The NJPW Set = Tiger Mask Is Meh like it were some kind of mathematical equation with only one possible correct answer. I really didn't want to mention Mark Henry because it's like the own Godwin Point of the DVDVR boards, but that's a great exemple of the anti-moves trend. The Mark Henry craze was really laughable to me, and it all about one or two trendsetters and a crowd following the trend. Because it was "cool" to think Mark Henry was a better worker than Jerry Lynn. Or something.

Aww come on, Dylan, you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's been going on for a few years now. I don't even see the point of denying the obvious. I don't know why you would even argue about that anyway. No, it's stupid, because no one ever said Holly was a great and influencial wrestler either.

Cool down and read my post Dylan. I'm not talking about YOU being anti-moves. I'm saying it's not surprising that the vast majority of the people watching the set hates Sayama because there's a trend. I'm not a Tiger Mask fan (as far as NJ goes, my deal is rather Choshu you see), but I can totally see his appeal, particulary in his timeframe. I don't think you'll ever come across anyone thinking Tiger Jeet Singh was a great worker. Stupid analogy really.

If Samaya was that bad, how was he considered an innovator and the icon of junior wrestling for so long in Japan, and elsewhere for that matter ? Don't tell me the Tiger mask does it all, because although the gimmick was gold, if the worker was that awful, he just wouldn't have became so big of a star. As far as the people watching the set being majoritary indifferent to Tiger Mask, it's not exactly surprising considering the "movez is bad" trend going on over there. I mean, let's be serious, it's not like this is happening in a vacuum, there's a predisposition to hate a guy like Tiger Mask these days. Now, the fact that he was nowhere as great as he has been pimped to is hardly a new opinion either, it's been said for years, it's not like the people watching the set discovered anything new. Dylan can't even see what people would like about Tiger Mask ? Well, I guess there's something he doesn't get about japanese wrestling in the 80's then, because the NJ audience and shitloads of junior wrestlers that got influenced by Sayama sure found a whole lot to like about him. And I don't particulary care about Sayama to begin with, and agree that Gran Hamada was a much better worker, but I just roll my eyes at some of the stuff here.

That made me laugh.

WWE did have two Chris at the same time, and apparently it was complex enough to fuck the mind of the "greatest announcer ever" JR to the point he wouldn't know who was Benoit and who was Jericho. Funny how Schiavone never seemed that troubled about that fact.

His face when he sees Hennig and Hall stepping out of the pool is priceless. "Ohhhhh". Nick Bockwinkel did a better rap than anyone else, this old asshole ruled so much. Add New Jack and Missy...

I love this thread.

Cornette still cuts a better promo than anyone currently employed in any wrestling promotion.

Vince should be happy to be in the "rasslin'" business still, because if he was considered as a legit Hollywood entertainment company, shit like this probably wouldn't fly. Funny to see the word "WRESTLER" too...

It's too bad because it was awesome. Tatanka & Sherri vs Bam Bam & Luna would have made for some great little mixed matches. It just occured to me, but all my favourite female valets are dead. Liz, Sherri, Woman, Luna. It's depressing enough to rewatch old stuff from my teen yeras and think about all the workers that died before they reach 45, but now I can add all the women too.