MJH
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Everything posted by MJH
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It was the tag match w/Hansen vs. Kawada/Taue, no?
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My first guess is no. Punk only turned heel very briefly on ECW whilst Benoit was on Smackdown so I'd be surprised had they wrestled against each other on the house shows. Benoit was put on the ECW crew less than two weeks before he died, by which point Punk was a face again. They teamed together (and maybe did at house shows that weekend). Benoit missed all the following weekend's house shows before the PPV (when they might've done a walkthrough) and obviously missed the PPV. Punk mentioned on the 'tribute' show how he was "finally going to wrestle Benoit" at the PPV so... the answer's probably not.
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When they went to that insulting double-countout, I naturally assumed "oh, Rock will come out and restart it, and they'll go at least another ten minutes. But instead, they instantly jumped to the ROCK BOTTOM, ONE TWO THREE part. Zuh? So lame. Perhaps that was the plan. Even with what they did they went off at 3:59. There was some really bad time management somewhere.
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I didn't think the production was that great. A lot of poor camera choices, especially early in the show. Obviously at times they were spectacular (mainly entrances) but the best direction isn't always the most glamourous. The criticism if HHH/Taker is perfectly valid. But a more insular and cerebral match wouldn't have worked. I love Coltrane, but his best ever solo taken in an old folk song would be hideous. It's Taker at WrestleMania... what did anyone really expect? Miz/Cena was really bad. They were off a lot early, both seemed banged up from the spot on the floor (which the production fucked up on and I don't think we even got a replay). Miz also looked about 12 when The Rock came in at the end, he needs facial hair or something ASAP. And is it just me or is there far too much religious crap now? Punk's "faith" sounded like he was working a born-again Christian gimmick the way Cole was talking about it and I guess Cena's video explained The Rock's awful line on Raw, but I don't understand where it's coming from, nor how a choir fitted with Cena's act at all. The armed guard shit at least suited his Marine/Salute/etc... I thought the show was alright overall - I didn't actively dislike it or anything - but between Cena/Miz and that Cole/Lawler debacle, The Rock's involvement being totally "meh"... that's 3 of the top 4 pushed angles disappointing.
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This looks to be a repeat of the Danielson situation. I'd be surprised if he's gone for good. It seems rather silly to me (interrupting the national anthem would probably get you cheered here), but their decision is hardly surprising.
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I've always considered Backlash the real WrestleMania Main Event Finish for 2000. It was also a much hotter and better show. And if HHH winning at Mania bought time until Austin could make his return, all the better. But he's not beating Taker.
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It's really balooned in the last few years - you can't imagine him wrestling Mark Henry at WrestleMania now and that was only five years ago.
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"Coming in cold" hasn't affected anyone I've shown the match to. I think this might have the best opening "hook" of any match, because they've all been into it as soon as Hokuto powders off the armbar. Also worth noting is, when watching it as part of a run of Zenjo at this time, rather than (even just Dream Slam) as a stand-alone, you really notice how atypical it is. But aside from that, is there much left to be said about this? Sure there's some sloppyness and the crowd brawlings a bit ... it's still uterrly fantastic.
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Yeah the thing I always remembered about the match was how creatively they moved between the early "segments". They use that planned "Shawn loses cool spot" to flare things up a bit, etc... and it all works. It's one of the best WWF matches of the year, and I'm probably alone in this, but I'm almost glad there's at least one Shawn match from 1996 that people still really like.
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The thing to be wary of in the whole Kobashi/Doc discussion; there's a lot of people who'll phrase John's argument as "Kobashi trying to steal more spotlight and Doc having to reign him in" (or something), which is ridiculous. That was clearly the planned finish, and will have came from/went through Baba. The logic from the six-man is off, of course, but it doesn't ruin the match for me at all. I think it works almost because it's Kobashi and his character, and it's not as if he's anywhere near getting control after the first one hits. I think the actual stupidest choice of the match was Doc's handspring elbow, but it's not as if that greatly affects the match either. I do prefer the Misawa/Doc match - I recall it being very cleverly/minutely laid-out - but Kobashi/Doc is still a great fun match too.
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I think people have pretty much made their respective cases on the series themselves, but, what's really so bad about being a revolutionary series of matches in their time that don't hold up 30 years later?
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This might be the first "Misawa By Numbers" match. I'm not sure exactly where I have it on the Misawa/Taue scale; obviously the 95 Final is #1, I probably have the '97 match at two even with the dodgy finish, and I'm unsure as to whether this or 9/95 is third. Still, it's a very strong match, and an easy MOTYC today. It's testament to AJ at this point (and for the next x years) that this probably isn't a Top 20 match for them. But still pretty great.
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I'm not so keen on their singles match from Dream Slam as well, but this was one of the rare times I didn't find Hotta to be as annoying as usual. But everything else Jerome said, more or less, I'm in agreement with; I had to take a break from watching more 1993 Joshi after how sickened I was by her match with Fukuoka from July 4th. This match, though, yes, I liked a lot. Their 60:00 is a bit too long for them, but I enjoyed it immensely, especially Ozaki down the stretch.
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Surely it's just a case of visibility, Bix? Did Hamada have anywhere near the TV exposure that Sayama did? Was Hamada ever the kind of worker to reach out, grab you and call attention to himself either? I've never been particularly struck by much "star quality" in the guy... maybe that's me, I don't know.
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I'm kind of on the fence about the whole Sayama/Dynamite debate. Of course they don't hold up. BUT... it's junior spotFU. It was never going to hold up. They were worked as exhibitions of what they could do athletically. They were about the excitement rather than drama/story. There was always going to be someone who came along and either did it quicker/faster/with more spins or guys who harnessed it better. Or both. I don't see what the big deal is; they're still the most important run of matches in the development of junior-heavyweight wrestling.
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It was always going to be WCW vs. nWo at the time. But, as you said, Loss, Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue had four of the best tag matches of the year, capped of with either the best or second best tag match ever. I can't watch the WCW/nWo stuff now without knowing what happened in the end. By contrast, the AJPW tags work as well as ever.
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Who won it for '97? '98? I don't remember them doing much of anything in '99, Kawada only worked three tours? I like the Kobashi/Akiyama January match but Burning them have the Misawa/Ogawa matches. Really, Misawa and Kobashi were a better tag team between 1993 and 1995. Misawa and Akiyama had a stronger year in 1996 with the June tag vs. Doc/Ace; I recall the RWTL vs. Kobashi/Patriot being an awesome TV match, too, and of course the feud with Kawada/Taue themselves. So, yeah, I'd have Misawa/Akiyama for 1996.
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Like Dan, I'm not sure what of her matches or performances were "mediocre". "Not great", sure... but if you run through her comm appearances: 1/24 trios certainly not, (2/28 and 3/20 she isn't on), Dream Slam I and II certainly not (though I know you're not as a big a fan of the first Kandori match as most, Ditch, I doubt you'd call it "mediocre"), vs. Yamada on 5/3 is good, w/Yamada vs. Hotta/Toyota 5/8 is good, 6/3 tag w/Kyoko vs. Aja/Bull is very good, vs. Kurenai on 6/11 is 90 seconds long, vs. Minami on 7/4 is good, JGP Finals is excellent, 8/25 vs. Kazama is probably Kazama's best match (certainly one of them), 9/5 tag is great, 9/29 she's not there, Marinepiad vs. Aja is disappointing for well-known reasons, 10/10 she's not on, Queendom I found disappointing (esp vs. Kansai at the start) but bad?, Kandori 2 at St. Final is very good and 12/10 is one of the best AJW tags ever... I haven't watched the TV in a while; I recall a nice little match with Debbie and the Harley one where she gets injured. Certainly some of those are not great, but everything is at least good (exc. Kurenai; Aja is at least a "good" match) and some are really great. As far as Hokuto not being a consensus pick for best wrestler in 1993, I agree. But that's a testament for the quality of work in 1993 rather than an argument against Hokuto. You had the AJ big three for starters all hitting or reaching their peak. Hansen had a career year too. Some might argue Vader (I wouldn't). But a Top 10 worker for 1993 would probably all be #1s with a bullet in any year in the last twelve. Edit: As noted earlier in the thread, however, I wouldn't nominate Hokuto for GOAT. But she's all-time great and '93 is certainly her banner, career year.
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Makes me wonder why more guys just didn't learn the Dory Funk (Billy Robinson, too) forearm shiver/uppercut instead. Always looks good, and more realistic than even a decent punch, imo. I do think punches work better as a one-off strike that the heel can build around using as an illegal hit, and that forearms (for instance) work better as a general strike. But that's just a personal preference on my part as to how I like punches used. I have no problem with Lawler or whomever using them as a regular strike, and certainly Lawler does them as well as anyone. I just like a more broader variety of offence than various punches, especially from a guy in their athletic prime as the best/ace/whatever.
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I'm actually a fairly big fan of late-Kobashi - I think it's remarkable what he can get out of chops and charisma and working matches around that. But it was less a comparison of quality and more an example of how a veteran limited to just strikes can work effectively.