Ditch
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Everything posted by Ditch
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"in front of a crowd of 50,000+" Gee guys why are you saying this is a scam?
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re Toyota vs Yoshida: They had a good match in the finals of the '92 singles tournament, so maybe that's the one? I like the 2001 iteration okay but the '92 match is more exciting. I'll add that in many cases, I was the first person to ask Lynch for a certain show in the DVD era- that is, he had the VHS and only converted it when I ordered the show. Granted it was usually obscure NOAH shows with matches that were 'good' at best, but not always. There's so much to watch online, why bother delving into it? In a way it makes it easier for those of us who DO seek out new-to-us matches to have an impact. We bring old matches to new light, and sometimes there's a great response. Of course the best example is the work Goodhelmet et al. have done on these huge sets. But there's no real 'competition' for those sets, and nobody else really doing what I do for hosting matches. Ultimately, what we care most about is that people have the ability to find new stuff to enjoy, and can watch as much as they have time for. I think that's the case.
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The Meltzer bio that would be most interesting at this point would be Meltzer himself.
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Torrent sites.
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If you pull it off I bet Lynch would give you a couple free discs.
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This came in 3rd in my 'best Japanese matches under 10 minutes' tournament last spring, and did best for everything after 1990. The first time I watched it, way way back in my early puro watching days, I couldn't fully appreciate Tenryu's attitude and stuff like the little face punts. I just thought it was a squash that took too long to end. Now, it comes across as something really memorable. Was there any Tenryu/Fujinami interaction in '96 after this?
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Someone needs to make the Lynch catalog pdf searchable. That would earn a gold sticker and a lollipop.
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Mighty Inoue just came to mind. Quite the dandy athlete for someone with his body shape. He pretty much fell off the radar in the '80s, but what I've seen from the '70s and early '90s is top-notch. IWE gets a bad rep because you had the likes of Strong Kobayashi and Rusher Kimura on top, but they had several quality wrestlers on the second tier. Yes. She was quite good in the '93 interpromotional stuff I've seen. But she wasn't in any of the highest-profile bouts, and JWP is much much less watched than AJW.
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Besides the blatantly obvious (ie. Liger/Sano, Jumbo/Misawa), I'd say the following. I'll expand on any if it's needed. AJ: -Jumbo & Tiger Mask vs Tenryu & Fuyuki, 1/14 -Tenryu & Kawada vs Jumbo & Isao Takagi, 1/20 -Hansen & Spivey vs Jumbo & Kobashi, 4/16 -Jumbo vs Tenryu, 4/19 -Kawada & Nakano vs Fuyuki & Kikuchi, 5/26 -Hansen vs Williams, 6/5 -Jumbo vs Gordy, 6/5 -Gordy vs Hansen, 6/5 -Williams vs Kobashi, 6/8 -Kawada vs Kobashi, 6/30 -Jumbo, Taue & Fuchi vs Misawa, Kawada & Kikuchi, 8/18 -Joe Malenko & Kikuchi vs The Fantastics, 9/1 -Jumbo & Taue vs Misawa & Kawada, 9/30 -Jumbo, Taue & Fuchi vs Misawa, Kawada & Kobashi, 10/19 -Jumbo, Taue & Mighty Inoue vs Misawa, Kawada & Kobashi, 10/21 -Jumbo & Taue vs Misawa & Kawada, 12/7 -One of the MVC vs Misawa/Kawada tags. Not sure if the October or RWTL iteration was better. Japan-that-isn't-AJ: -Jumbo/Yatsu vs Kimura/Kido, NJ 2/10 -Choshu/Takano vs Tenryu/Misawa, NJ 2/10 -Liger vs Owen, NJ 2/24 -Suzuki vs Nakano, UWF 2/27 -Fujiwara vs Takada, UWF 2/27 -Yamazaki vs Nakano, UWF 5/4 -Choshu vs Hashimoto, NJ 5/28 -Mutoh & Chono vs Hashimoto & Masa Saito, NJ 6/26 -Bull Nakano vs Manami Toyota, AJW 7/21 -Tenryu vs Takano, SWS 10/19 -Mutoh/Chono vs Hase/Sasaki, NJ 11/1 -Hase/Sasaki vs Koshinaka/Iizuka, NJ 12/13
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I'd say part of it depends on just how many "all-time classics" one thinks there are. Is it more like 20, or more like 100? I wouldn't put this in the 20 best wrestling matches of all time, but it's an easy top 100. Considering the absolutely massive amount of pro wrestling that has happened in history, top 100 is still going to mean something. MJH, I see where you're coming from in that there isn't a particular storyline/feud/"issue" at stake in it. But I'm with JDW in thinking that it stands out as unique relative to other juniors wrestling, and I'd say as a pure technical showcase it's memorable for the history of pro wrestling based on the way it mixes submissions with junior spots. Not sure I'd have it #1 for the decade from NJ, but it would be up there. And if one rates the style just a little bit higher, and rates the match at #1 in the style (which isn't a big jump from "top 5-top 10"), then "all-time classic" would tend to make sense.
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I don't know how much of old WONs are available at any given moment online, but I'll say that he's worked from '91 through '93 over the last couple years. I haven't looked in-depth to see how much is on the torrent, but the sense I get is that it covers ~84 through to where the current 'old WON of the week' series picks up. And it's in the form of scans, which isn't the easiest way to read them...
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The networks seem to have done okay with their cheap variety shows. The profit margins on those things must be INSANE. So, wrestling needed them more than the other way around. I doubt AJW would have lasted long on TV no matter what they did. Baba was Mr. NTV, had all the right friends, got ratings, and got shafted time after time.
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I've enjoyed a lot of the Kandori I've watched recently, but I can't quite imagine her vs Toyota because of the severe style clash. I haven't seen Kandori eating intricate suplexes; I haven't seen Toyota eat fists.
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-vs Kandori? Was that in '98 or so? Haven't seen that one discussed, since it took place in another 'dark era'. -Who's saying she should retire?
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I get the sense that Bull is more well-regarded than Kyoko, but I agree with the sentiment that her time on top is a 'dark era' in terms of Joshi That Anyone Has Watched. I don't think she's "forgotten" in the way that this thread means, since if you asked people to list 10 top joshi workers, Bull would be on most lists. She was #43 in the big Smarkschoice poll, and 8th on that poll for joshi.
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re Taue: I rated the 9/10/95 match #18 so we're certainly on the same page there. But I rated 1/24/95 #13 and enjoy it quite a lot. PM coming. re Momota: He looked good in a singles match vs Fuchi in '89 that's on the set. Granted it's Fuchi, but Momota held up his end. I haven't seen him much in listings so I don't think there was much footage, maybe there is some more Momota content that I didn't see.
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Has anyone here seen the Flair vs Tenryu matches from '92? Now that I know how much Flair wanted to do the match in '88, I'm curious to see how they turned out.
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I'm hosting matches of him vs Inoki and vs Fujinami from the late '70s. Sadly there's hardly anything else out there from him in the '70s.
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1/3 issue: "John Cena beat Wade Barrett in a cage match. The General Manager announced that if anyone interfered during this match, Barrett would be put on suspension. Well, if he would have gotten suspended, he could have pleaded that he had hypointerference, and needed interference for health reasons, and at least got the suspension cut back in half."
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Having seen the match several times I really don't know where you got that impression from. He certainly didn't "suck" in that match, or else it would have gone in the toilet whenever he was called on to do something. Granted, that match isn't on the same tier as the 5/94, 6/95 and 10/95 iterations of the match, but it's still high-end and has a hell of a lot going for it. Bad workers do things like botch important spots, lose track of where the match should go, get winded, etc. He didn't do any of those things. Least guy in the match, yes. Added the least to the match's quality, yes. But suck, nooooooo. That has always been my biggest qualm with your epic AJ '90s rundown. In fact it might be my only real one.
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I think Manami Toyota is best compared to Kurt Angle. Incredibly talented, reliably hard-working, loved by Meltzer, but often mindless in doing 'big match'-style and highspots. I enjoyed Toyota quite a bit in my first years of watching puro, but having seen more of her second and third tier matches has lessened that fandom quite a lot. I agree with JDW in that the lack of criticism is more from joshi's current irrelevance than anything else.
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These two had a markedly better match a year later. They hadn't yet hit their stride as workers at this point.