Matt D

Eh, I've got time here, but I struggled with him five years ago. I'll struggle with him in five years, I bet. Plenty of time to work this out. There are things I love about him but not a lot that I actually like. That's how I'd put it for now. But he deserves a better than that. I have some suspicions but I'd have to rewatch things to delve into them. I agree with how special and varied his 2000-1 is though.

The guys Hart doesn't like in that book (Lothario, Fullers, Fuji), he really doesn't like.

Five years is a long time, but I feel like I went too high on him last time, maybe due to peer pressure. I appreciate his output far more than his input and someone like that's going to end up right in the middle of my list (which isn't a bad place to be, really). I can see him being my tenth luchador.

You guys have seen Ice Train in Germany, right?

Yeah, that heel vs heel stuff sounds more like what I'm looking for, let alone 63. I do agree he could work a match very different if he was up against Young David or Zoltan Boscik or Jon Cortez. He was very versatile within his role. Which right now seems like it could be enough to propel him all the way to my #11.

Breaks was in my top 10 last time and I wish I could stick him there this time, but it seems a high bar what with me adding the entire country of Japan. Wrestlers who were the absolute best at one thing will have a hard time hitting my top 10 if they weren't also at least extremely good at other things as well. That's just how my list is going to work. Wrestlers like that will 100% be in the 10-20 range, however. I want that footage of Breaks fighting a foreign menace or some upstart asshole or someone just as mean as him where the crowd gets behind him because "Well, that's our bastard, innit?" (the 20-30 range will probably be more reserved for guys like Martel who were close to the absolute best at something I value but where we have the footage of them not being great at other things, as opposed to us just not knowing or for them being actively good at it). But yeah, he's one of the best, most complete, most absolute bad guys in wrestling history.

We just got a new handheld of that which gives us a few extra minutes in the front, some later minutes cut out, better crowd noise and a different camera angle so you get to pick up on different things.

When Sombra got signed, I did a master list of the reviews I'd done of his career. I bet a lot of the video links still don't work, but it still might be useful to someone: http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2016/04/sombra-manny-andrade-spotlight-master.html

We kind of sort of got to see what he'd look like as an ace/Mil Mascaras style attraction in Lucha Underground. There are new mid 90s AAA matches popping up this year.

I know exactly how I feel about 09-12 Christian, but I need to figure out when he got good enough to matter on my list. In the '16 list, that was enough well for him to do very well, but I'm putting so many new wrestlers on. I did catch an 06 match vs Corino tonight which was a good babyface performance with some of the key elements but you got the sense Corino was driving it more.

I looked at my 2016 list for the first time in a while tonight and it is nuts once you get past the top 30 or so.

I hemmed and hawed about Destroyer last time around and I ultimately felt like I hadn't seen enough to be sure and I left him off. I will watch and likely at least capsule review everything this time around.

To be practical and productive: very few people think he is not great. Some just don’t think that he is the greatest. Or more specifically, that his particular definition of greatness is the most accurate one. I don’t foresee a world where he is not in my top 20. Last time he was in my top 10. We’re fifteen years into this. With many of these candidates it’s whether they’re 1, 4, 6, or 12 on your list.

I'm very happy to watch late 70s-early 80s Fujinami vs guys like Skip Young. i should probably do more than that though.

Let me negotiate here: Every Hash match, every Fujiwara match, and exactly 150 Liger matches?

I have no idea how I'm going to handle NJPW. That's not true, I have ideas, but it's such a gap for me. I don't think I can just up and pick a year to watch like I've done with AJPW. Doing that's taught me so much about the years before and after it, but I also wasn't really preparing for a GWE then. I know I'm going to cut off by 05 which makes it easy. I like you guys but not enough to watch any 2010s NJPW. Maybe for 2045. My crazy idea is to watch literally every Hash match I can relatively easily find in chronological order. It just seems like a fun way to go about it. Plus it means i get to watch NJPW by watching Memphis, which is the best way to do it I bet. Then as I see guys like Hase or Fujinami or whoever, I'll pull in other directions.

Too far for me there. It's fiction! You can tell a story where a lot of unconnected things happen and the character is always consistent and doing what the character should be doing (and I'm not going to go so far as to say that's even what Flair is doing relative to other wrestlers, though I'm not denying it either at this juncture), and maybe it'll make sense and you can follow it, but a story where there's a compelling and connected beginning, middle, and end is just better, all other things equal.

I think I like the Punk match. I am Ok with all four of those actually, but past the first few minutes of the Joe match, that’s about it.

Being able to spam finishers and use German Suplexes like someone else would use punches is the narrative equivalent of being able to use steroids when no one else is allowed to. Anyway, I was looking back and if you want to see me pinballing up against all the board babyfaces and taking their finishers, there's the Bryan vs Brock real time stuff (I'm pretty consistent here):

Five years are a lot of years and I think I've pushed myself to a point where I very much know how I, as me, should watch at least 1989 AJPW tags. So, while I am not at all looking forward to this, I do think i need to go back through many of those early-mid 80s Hansen/Brody and Hansen/Dibiase tags that I strongly disliked last time around and see if I don't enjoy them more now. Also, I want to see some Brock/Hansen comparisons, because I think on paper, they'd seem extremely similar and they may create similar emotional effects, but when you get in the specifics of what Hansen actually does relative to what Brock actually does in their matches in order to achieve those effects, they're hugely different offensively.

When you look at the GWE list from last time, it's an interesting top 100 and an extremely interesting top 150.

I love it. Plenty of stand out PPV matches. Good TV matches. He developed into a really excellent, multi-faceted heel. I was there live for the cage match vs Taker at MSG and for his Rumble win in Boston. I think he still has a lot of the tools in his tool belt that he had in that run. I just don't buy that he's using them to do anything other than to dress up wildly exciting excrement.

And Goldberg was a totally unknown guy with a good look and some real intensity that they let break the rules, have a bunch of two minute squashes with a winning streak, and got completely behind as a push. Brock was allowed to break even more rules than that. If you're allowed to break all the narrative rules in an environment which is set up so no one's allowed to stand out, you're going to get over and feel incredibly exciting in comparison. It's just going to screw over the rest of the card and every show you're not on because the rules which have been used to create narrative consistency for decades no longer matter. Brock's immensely talented. Imagine if he was actually able to channel that talent into working actual pro wrestling matches instead of whatever it is he's done for the last ten years.

The Hennig singles match is great too.

Just curious: do people go back and rewatch Brock's matches or do they only work in the moment? It's interesting to think how we consume matches along these lines actually. None of us will have ever seen a Destroyer match live as it was happening, to experience that sort of emotion during it. I remember how I felt during Brock vs Punk, for instance, though, where the end result was in question and that impacts my feelings towards it. I guess that's more of a GME question in most cases, but I think Brock's 2010s runs is much more of a "you had to be watching live" sort of thing. I'll be frustrated with how he does in 2026 probably, but I'll be curious in how people take to him for 2036.