Matt D

I'm not saying this with Tanahashi necessarily, but just in general: I can appreciate someone who connects with the crowd and not with me, but given the sheer number of great nominees on the table, that will very likely make that person an honorable mention at best.

A wrestler giving the fans what they want is a very, very tricky thing to weigh in all this.

Not for nomination's sake, just in general? Do we reduce for style?

Do we feel the same about John Zandig? If not, why not?

Tag champs too.

In general I don't disagree heavily, not because it shouldn't be done but because it's not done to the extent that when it is, it does stand out. That said, re: Late Michaels, it's more of an issue to me when he dropped the back selling, because so many of his matches were built around his opponent working over his damaged back. The more the limbwork is an essential part of the narrative, the more of an issue it is when it's dropped.

Thanks. I'll hit them soon. I'd love for someone to make a Hansen list like the LaserLossFlairList, too, because he's someone who probably deserves it as a number 1 contender.

I will say that Martel looks a hell of a lot better vs Buddy than he does vs Harley that year.

This was generally the thread I showed people when trying to explain PWO to them.

If any note needs to be formatted, it's this one (and you know, my Buddy Rose stuff. That's hell enough to read as it is I bet, even without formatting problems).

What matters more? Mobilizing the base or drawing in casuals?

There was something pretty special about seeing it in 02-03 when local indies would generally bring in a guy like Beefcake like it was a big deal, and suddenly you had all these guys you only read about on the internet or saw in ".rm" files or whatever, guys like Daniels and Red and the SAT and Low Ki and Styles. It felt almost like the internet wrestling geek version of when Vince suddenly had all these guys on his roster in 85.

So the only time that Brock ever drew sufficiently as a main eventer was when he wasn't in wrestling. Got it.

His English was still pretty rough a few years later when he was AWA champ.

I love the jockeying for position in the Chicky Starr pole match but the ending is pretty lame.

Yeah, Bill, not to pile on, but I want to see it too. Take your time, we've got it, but let's see some breakdowns in the Angle note.

I'm just picturing Cena with hilarious cut off arms on the tux, like Fred Flinstone or something, and Ambrose with a monocle he got somewhere.

A Cena/Ambrose Tuxedo match would be aces.

Shane Douglas syndrome.

Wolfie D was one of the more valid choices on the list, actually.

A friend got me a gift sub for the year.

No, and it's a hell of a storytelling tool. It's hugely striking. It stays with you. It leaves a mark on your psyche just to see it. Now I just want to see him use it to tell a story that I really get to enjoy (and I say this having seen that with the Hennig AWA match, for instance, but I want to see it here too). It's the sort of tool that if used for the sake of using it, can render a match meaningless. I think that it's worth discussing not just if it makes the special matches more special, but if it actively hurts matches that don't reach that level by making them all noise (albeit glorious noise) and no resonance? I think it hurt these matches. Now, on the other hand, if these matches would have been worked EXACTLY the same if it was Bass and Dibiase teaming, then maybe it didn't, because those matches wouldn't have been as good without him to do what they wanted to do as well as he did it? But maybe those matches would have been better almost by accident because they'd have to slow things down and make things mean more without his intensity to use as a crutch? I have no idea. I need to see more. This isn't necessarily an attack on Hansen. It's just impressions and qualified ones at that.

I started on the Jumbo vs Brisco matches. And then I saw Tenryu on Will's list and went "hey, maybe I should see Tenryu too." Then I typed in Jumbo, Tenryu into youtube and found these two in the first few hits, I think. The first one I picked because I kind of like Bass, and then when I saw the second one which looked like it was on the same tour and was only 20 mins long, which is about as long as I have to watch a match right now, I figured that had a point of reference, so what the hell? Science. RE: Bull charges. Sometimes bulls charge into each other, and the intensity was there, and the crowd sort of ate it up (I think; they got excited when Jumbo and Hansen were in at least), but that doesn't mean that it's something that appeals all that much to me. The leg selling felt like it was for the sake of it, what Dibiase thought he was supposed to do, not necessarily something to draw the fans into any aspect of the match, and then the bulls charging felt like they were for he sake of it, not necessarily to tell any particular story. It didn't build towards anything. I can appreciate the intensity and how singular it is. I've never seen anyone move quite like Hansen, but amazing execution for the sake of amazing execution falls into one very broad category for me which is "something for the sake of itself." IF it's the right thing for the crowd, it gets some credit, and yeah, something realistic seeming will do better than something overly collaborative in my mind, but it's just the rich man's version of the 00s stuff we shit on. Now, like you said, these aren't great matches, but I needed to start somewhere, and I'd rather start with something like this than at the top, so I can get my feet wet and understand better what I'm seeing when I do see the high end stuff.