Matt D

The Southern Boys were really good and all but the Young Pistols, after the heel turn, were AMAZING. One reason I can't get myself to watch much SMW Smothers is because of the face turn where he turns his back on that run and embraces his podunk roots or whatever. Not for me.

Unfortunately there is a dearth of great Orient Express matches, at least taped. There are the Rockers matches and the New Foundation match. The Demolition match is pretty weirdly laid out if I remember right. The Hart foundation match that aired is a glorified squash. The Power and Glory match isn't nearly as cool as it sounds. The MSG Haku and Barbarian vs Orient Express match turns out to be Kato and Fuji vs Barbarian and Haku, which is a damn shame. The Six man vs Kerry/Steamboat/Bulldog is a squash. The Rockers + Virgil vs Orient Express + Fuji match isn't very good. Like with PG-13, they had a very entertaining squash with The Roadies from memory. The big problem with the Orient Express is that by the time they came on the scene the aired Boston Garden/Philly Spectrum/MLG matches were already over and done with. It means we lose out at least four or five Rockers matches (one of which I was at live as a kid, I think), a couple of handicaps w/Fuji vs LOD, and some Bushwhackers matches which I actually wouldn't have minded seeing and a Shane Douglas/Marty Jannetty vs OX match. Actually, the 7/17/90 Rockers vs Orient Express MLG match made one of the "HOTTEST MATCHES" tapes. I wonder if I've ever seen that. OH! by all means, DO watch the Barbarian/Haku vs Fuji/Kato match though. Not a good match but it has some really neat and rare Heenan/Fuji stuff. I think it was set up the month before with Fuji guest managing the Barbarian or something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZIeW9XOyZw

Unfortunately there is a dearth of great Orient Express matches, at least taped. There are the Rockers matches and the New Foundation match. The Demolition match is pretty weirdly laid out if I remember right. The Hart foundation match that aired is a glorified squash. The Power and Glory match isn't nearly as cool as it sounds. The MSG Haku and Barbarian vs Orient Express match turns out to be Kato and Fuji vs Barbarian and Haku, which is a damn shame. The Six man vs Kerry/Steamboat/Bulldog is a squash. The Rockers + Virgil vs Orient Express + Fuji match isn't very good.

Look. Actually watch the matches and see how they're laid out. That they could do so much with such a limited arsenal of moves is absolutely amazing and is a point FOR them, not against them. That they changed up the matches that they were wrestling almost every single time out, even against the same opponents is mindblowing. Instead of just outright no-selling like people remember them doing, they instead made their opponents work for everything they got out of them and the end result makes for astoundingly logical matches. Here, if you can stomach dailymotion (protip: use firefox with the proper combination of ad and script blockers), we've got a ton of matches all set for you to watch. We did the work for you in finding them. http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.php?showtopic=51663 Also, the Colossal Connection is one of the best WWF teams ever from their body of work. (granted, they only have a few Demos matches, a few squashes, and the Rockers match but still. Broken down Andre was the single smartest worker of all time). As for great Demolition matches. The 88 MSG Rockers match, the Twin Towers series, 88 Summerslam vs Harts, the MSG Colossal Connection match, and the Brain Busters series all have matches I'd consider great, especially considering the time constraints. Some of the Bulldogs matches are really good too. And for the most part, the heel-in-peril stuff doesn't happen much with Demos (save for maybe some of the longer Bulldogs matches) due to the aforementioned making their opponents work for everything.

I would say that sometimes the WWF had extended shine periods for their babyfaces or alternatively shorter heat periods on the face-in-peril than other places but some of that is an illusion due to the shorter match times in general. Some of it was giving the Northeastern fans what they wanted. I don't think it's quite as over the top as some people indicate.

I'm just a little baffled that you're here, trying to have a conversation with everyone, and using moveset as not just a argument, but as a primary reason to like or dislike a body of work. In 2011. Here. That's all. When I was 9, I thought that Hogan was TERRIBLE because he only punched and bodyslammed people. And then when on the UNREAL History of Professional Wrestling on A&E when Bruno or someone made that exact same comment, I felt so vindicated. Now, I like to think I look at things a little more openly. Moreover, I actually read the back and forths here. They're great. It's a great sight, and that's the last argument I'd make around here, because I'd look like a complete and utter ass in making it. As for late-career arguments, I think that they can really only help a wrestler/team in a situation like this. What you can do in a match after you can't resort to physical shortcuts says a lot about how good of a wrestler you are. But then I always put a lot more stock in working smart than working hard.

I may be biased but Bill Eadie is a god damn superworker.

I'm 29 and past an unhealthy amount of nostalgia for the year 1991 tend to skew young and clueless.

I read the Flair comments as him being a little jealous (or maybe envious, more than jealous) that Macho could have lived another 600 years while he's having issues, and then shrugging it off and going "oh well, I'm the Nature boy."

The second bit I believe. Him forcing Angelo into the WCW HOF in 95 is rumored to be one of the reasons Solie distanced himself from WCW (not that it particularly mattered at that point).

In the build to this match, they made it seem like it was the first time that Hennig and Lawler were going at each other since the AWA Title changed. Which was maddening since Hennig was in earlier in the year.

For what it's worth, Andre/Hogan is a fairly smartly laid out match. Andre may have been hurting but his timing and body language was frigging amazing in his late run. (But then I'm the guy who thinks that Warrior/Andre SNME is a great match too).

Re: Taker. I SWEAR to you that they added Paul Bearer to his act because he was too scary. Brother Love as his manager added to the package in a different way and just scared the shit out of kids. You can just see it on their faces in the crowd. When Percy came in, WAY WAY over the top, it made it all seem more cartoony and easier to accept.

From the loads of shoot mp3s I've heard, it depends. Is Rip Rogers teaching you or not?

I feel like Lawler had to do his very best to rationalize his WWF actions, where he wasn't just a heel but a smarmy annoying cowardly heel, but thankfully Lawler's best is quite considerable.

What did he say wrong? Dont you think too much moaning by a rich millionaire? It seems he's always been up front about hating the travel and being in the public eye and that's why he quit. Hell, in UFC he doesn't talk to his boss for months on end. He maintains such a secluded lifestyle that he had no idea who Chael Sonnen was when asked. But do you think he knows who the Beatles and Bo Jackson are?

Funny, I popped in a DVD the other day and both of those thoughts were going through my head. How hot Beth was. And how Stevens as the modern day Jimmy Garvin with two valets would seem perfect for RAW. Stevens was me and my college pals absolute favorite indy wrestler in 2000. We'd go to actually quite bad indy shows specifically to laugh our heads off at his antics. How he had the pointless WWE run he did (and if he gets called up as Damien Sandow, will probably have another) is beyond me.

Storyline-wise, the trickiest part of that feud is figuring out if they were all in on it together from the get go or if not when they decided to reunite and screw Sting, because there was some pretty heated stuff at the beginning.

I'll say this. I wasn't really into wrestling at this point. I had fallen off in mid 92, but as a kid, this was still a big deal.

Dave was amusing on Observer Radio saying "God damn that's scary" at the prospect of Christian vs. Mark Henry main events, despite Christian being as good as he is. I can see that from a drawing perspective, but that's the single feud I want the most in the WWE right now I think. Christian had one-two (tops) matches with Zeke but he really wasn't fighting too many monsters in 09 during his incredible TV Title-esque run. Christian is so great at adapting and rearranging and teasing his spots and I can just imagine what he'd do against Henry and what Henry could do with him.

And he did.

I really love the transition that they did in Flair/Arn (multiple matches actually in that feud) where after the Flair Flip, Arn would go for the "babyface clotheslines Flair on the apron" spot and Flair would duck it.

Really good match. To me it's frustrating that they took so long to debut Roma after they announced him at Slamboree. He should have been all over TV the next weekend if they wanted to get him over. Damn taping schedule.

This is EASILY the best one. Dustin is absolutely hilarious in this, and so is Foley. "Oh yes, I know you. You're the great country western singer, Dustin Rhodes." "Well, I..." I'm cracking up now just thinking about it.

I bet there are a ton of awesome Flair/Valentine tag matches. And if someone ever invents time travel we'll be able to see them.