Matt D

So, the Omni footage. We know they have: 10/23/83 being The Last Battle of Atlanta. We know they have at LEAST the first match of the Thanksgiving tag tournament on 11/24/83. Clips from the rest of the tournament was shown on TV. The main event of this show, by the way was Roadies vs Sawyer and Rich, with Sawyer having just turned on Ellering to protect his brother and basically challenging the Road Warriors over him. The idea of Rich and Sawyer teaming up as babyfaces is amazing. Hopefully we get it this year, maybe around Thanksgiving. We now know that they have 12/4/83. To me, this is a pattern. You can pick any match you want from any Omni show over, but it's a bit more reasonable to look at stuff in the range of what we know they have. Let's take a look at the shows around that. GCW @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - August 28, 1983 Mr. Wrestling I pinned Joe Lightfoot with a bridge following a running knee lift Brett Wayne pinned Bob Roop with an inside cradle Bruno Sammartino Jr. defeated Paul Ellering via count-out when Ellering left the ring after sustaining a press slam NWA Tag Team Champions Jack & Jerry Brisco defeated National Tag Team Champions the Road Warriors via count-out in a No DQ match after the Briscos used steel chairs on the Road Warriors and prevented them from getting back in the ring Tommy Rich pinned Bill Irwin in a whipping match with an inside cradle; after the bout, Rich began lashing Irwin until Mid-Atlantic TV Champion the Great Kabuki, along with Gary Hart, attacked him; moments later, Ole Anderson and Pez Whatley made the save Pez Whatley pinned Mid-Atlantic TV Champion the Great Kabuki (w/ Gary Hart) with a flying headbutt after Ole Anderson came ringside and tripped Kabuki; after the match, Whatley and Anderson celebrated in the crowd as Hart cut a promo in the ring Buzz Sawyer (w/ Paul Ellering) defeated Dick Slater via disqualification when referee Nick Patrick caught Slater wearing brass knuckles as he had Sawyer covered following a punch; the weapon was originally used by Sawyer after the referee had been knocked down by Ellering; after the bout, Sawyer & Ellering attacked Slater and dropped him with a spike piledriver National Heavyweight Champion Larry Zbyszko pinned Mr. Wrestling II with a sunset flip and using the ropes for leverage; the challenger came to the ring in possession of the title belt and stole it back after the decision before chasing Zbyszko out of the ring GCW @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - November 6, 1983 (4,000) Pat Rose vs. Les Thornton Brad Armstrong vs. Joe Lightfoot Jake Roberts (w/ Paul Ellering) defeated National TV Champion Ron Garvin to win the title Jimmy Valiant defeated the Great Kabuki Buzz Sawyer fought Abdullah the Butcher to a no contest National Tag Team Champions the Road Warriors (w/ Paul Ellering) fought Dusty Rhodes & Brett Sawyer to a no contest Tommy Rich defeated Ted Dibiase (sub. for NWA World Champion Harley Race) via disqualification GCW @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - December 25, 1983 (2,500) Cowboy Lang defeated Little Tokyo Buzz Sawyer defeated the Sheik NWA Jr. Heavyweight Champion Les Thornton defeated Tommy Rogers Brett Sawyer defeated National TV Champion Jake Roberts (w/ Paul Ellering); Roberts retained the title since the decision happened after the first 15 minutes of the match National Heavyweight Champion Ted Dibiase defeated Tommy Rich in a loser leaves town match Stan Hansen & Bugsy McGraw defeated the Road Warriors (w/ Paul Ellering) via disqualification Buzz Sawyer defeated Paul Ellering in a lights out match GCW @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - January 1, 1984 Johnny Rich vs. Pat Rose Tommy Rogers vs. Brad Armstrong Ron Garvin vs. Pez Whatley National TV Champion Jake Roberts (w/ Paul Ellering) vs. Jerry Lawler Jerry Brisco, National Tag Team Champion Brett Sawyer, & Bugsy McGraw vs. Karl Krupp & the Road Warriors (w/ Paul Ellering) National Heavyweight Champion Ted Dibiase vs. Bob Armstrong Jos LeDuc vs. National Tag Team Champion Buzz Sawyer GCW @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - January 15, 1984 (4,500) Tommy Rogers defeated NWA Jr. Heavyweight Champion Les Thornton to win the title; the title change was reversed the next day since Thornton's foot was on the rope during the cover Ron Garvin fought Pez Whatley to a draw National TV Champion Jake Roberts fought Jerry Lawler to a double count-out Jerry Brisco, National Tag Team Champion Brett Sawyer, & Bugsy McGraw defeated the Road Warriors & Karl Krupp when Krupp was pinned; after the bout, Stan Hansen attacked the Road Warriors with a 2x4 Johnny Rich pinned National Heavyweight Champion Ted Dibiase when Mr. R interfered National Tag Team Champion Buzz Sawyer fought Jos LeDuc to a double disqualification at the 4-minute mark GCW @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - February 5, 1984 Ron Garvin defeated King Kong Bundy via forfeit; stipulations stated the winner would receive a National TV title shot on Feb. 11 Mr. R defeated the Spoiler NWA TV Champion Jake Roberts defeated Jerry Brisco Pez Whatley & Sweet Brown Sugar defeated National Tag Team Champion the Road Warriors via disqualification National Heavyweight Champion Ted Dibiase defeated Jack Brisco I feel like any of that is reasonably in play. There's a lot that stands out. First and foremost would be the two Jake Roberts vs Jerry Lawler matches. I loved the Roberts vs Brett Sawyer match from 10/23/83. It was the fulfillment of the promise of master of psychology Jake. I can only imagine what he could have done with 84 Lawler. There's also another Roberts vs Bret match and Roberts vs Garvin and vs Jerry Brisco. For Dibiase, you get two Rich matches, Bob Armstrong, Johnny Rich with Mr. R antics, and Jack Brisco. Buzz Sawyer gets Slater, Shiek, Abdullah, Leduc. So there's a lot of good stuff in there. (If we go one show later, we get Brad vs Flair. Going backwards gets us more Zbyszko and Wrestling II)

Here's a bit of TV leading up to it:

https://www.youtube.com/user/bwilliamswyn25/videos Pretty cool to see full episodes, such as: as I've primarily just seen single matches.

I know I've noticed it at other points. He's quick to agree with things that sound reasonable even if he doesn't remember or it might not be true. One thing I find funny so far is Conrad trying to manage JR on the ads. He was trying to do the railroad crossing one and JR just went on and on about something else. Then there are moments where the ads are obviously pre-tapes and they seem to come right in the middle of a sentence.

I never have any time to really write about either this or Bischoff's show. It's very enjoyable so far. The part I find most amusing with JR is when he just sort of guesses, or he goes along with Conrad's guess, when it's obviously he doesn't remember. Like with the whole "Davey was hanging out with the wrong people." shtick, and JR was really just speaking of generalities, but when Conrad mentions Luger, he sort of makes it seem he was obviously talking about Luger, when he obviously wasn't talking about Luger at all. That sort of thing happens a few times an episode.

Here's what I wrote over at SC about Studd vs Andre: I'd like to introduce everyone to the hill I am going to die on this week: Big John Studd. Studd is, I think, one of the most wildly underrated wrestlers of all time. He's not a total package like Eric's Berzerker-era Nord. In fact, one element of his game is actually quite flawed and I'll get to that. It's more the case that he's one of the biggest victims in history of workrate primacy and the undervaluing of stalling and stooging that afflicted wrestling writing and thought for much of the last forty years. Studd more often than not is the world's largest Larry Zbyszko. He's a heat-generating magnet, made all the more so by the fact he's so damn big and so damn powerful. He's a giant. Even facing another giant, there's massive dissonance in the idea that he's going to take five minutes walking around the ring jawing with fans or that he'll do everything he can to avoid a lock-up. That's part of what made it all so brilliant. This isn't base laziness. It's premeditated and effective. This match is as perfect an example as you'll get. He absolutely takes his time getting in, making at least one full, languid, rotation of the ring, interacting with the fans, taunting Andre, drawing heat. The second he starts to get in, Andre is on top of him. This is a return match (though the return was a few months and other shows in the making) so everything was primed and the fans absolutely love Andre not letting Studd do what he wanted to do. That loops us right into the second half of the Memphis-equation, the stooging. If the stalling is the build, the stooging is the payoff. Studd sells everything happening in the ring as only a guy his size could, with massive limbs flailing and body bouncing all over the place, gigantic recoil. His robe ends up over his head. This never aired. It has no commentary. It was filmed to potentially air (much of this show ended up on TV or on videotapes) and they occasionally cut to members of the crowd looking absolutely delighted. As good as Andre was at being Andre, that's not him. That's all Studd. When Studd takes a powder out to the floor and is surrounded by the crowd, the two cops come down to stand on either side of him. The visual is striking. Everyone's so much smaller than Studd and here he is, running away, in hostile territory, Gulliver in the land of the Lilliputians, and he needs these two tiny cops to protect him from all the other tiny people. People are most affected by things when there is a gap between their expectations and reality; that's John Studd in a nutshell and it works. Where it falls apart, generally, is when he takes over on offense. Some of his stuff, the clubbering, some of the intensity with the choking, is really good, but it almost always settles down into a bearhug or a chinlock and Studd, while so good at giving and giving and giving, at delaying and delivering with his stooging, wasn't great at making his holds compelling when he was on top. Someone like Flair or Bockwinkel absolutely were, and even a guy like Zbyszko could take that first half of his act and pay it forward into the second part. Studd couldn't or wouldn't. That's half of the problem. It's what people remember. It's what stands out because it falls later in the match. Even so, the fans were completely into Andre's comeback (so much of that based on the heat that Studd had drawn previously in the match) and it all finished both definitively and well. Like I said, the chinlock was half the problem. Only half. The other half is the workrate bit. We spent decades in a dark age where stalling was frowned upon as the opposite of everything wrestling should be. Why care about the acting in a movie when there are special effects to look at, right? They're flashier. They involve less thought and less nuance. People have turned the corner on wrestlers like Lawler and Zbyszko. Studd isn't on that same level. He's only half the act, but I feel like it's time he finally got proper credit for that half, which was truly exceptional. That's the hill I'm standing on. Shoot your arrows accordingly.

We're more interested in Andre vs Blackwell?

It's amazing watching Buddy Rose in front of the same crowd week to week against a variety of opponents. You would do yourself a massive disservice trying to cherry pick.

I mean, I'm fine personally with the place being quieter but most of the posters being of the generally high knowledge and quality that we have as opposed to having more people but a less pleasant experience.

If it's any help, I'm going to run (Secret) Santo in July for a month or two ~July 25.

Follow up question: It seems like they have a number of AWA matches, in full, that we'd only previously seen JIP, Outside of Bockwinkel vs Flair, are there any matches in the most likely period for which you've only seen a few minutes of, that you'd really want to see? I'm blanking a bit myself. Maybe one of the Super Destroyer Mark II vs Bockwinkel matches?

@khawk20 So, we have 10 minutes of an 11/16/82 handicap match, or do we think these are the same? I remember that being a lot of fun for what we have. We have ~6 of the Blackwell match (and I remember that being fun for what we have too).

And we don't even lose next week's gems for it?

How were they?

I've been reading a biography of Jack L Warner and the way he would use suspensions to extend contracts to prevent actors from going to other studios reminds me of WWE with the injury extensions.

Bryan stands out so much in his promos because it's obvious he cares. He portrays investment and belief and stands for something. He cares about whether he wins or loses. He cares about having the belt (or the tag belts) as a platform to be used to get his message across. His backstage promo this week was about how tag wrestling was undervalued and treated as a joke and how he was going to represent and elevate it. Yes, that's naval-gazing and inward-looking and about the "product" but there was so much conviction behind it that it works. There's something real underpinning it and he gets to channel it. That's the same reason why Becky's push last year generally worked. You can make it about the WWE but only if there's something genuine underpinning it.

They're trying to recreate the initial Brock debut, right?

What would the other choices even be? The Savage SNME match and the DK singles match from the Capitol Center? Also, were there hope spots during the heat? The absolute lack of them was the most striking thing from the Dibiase match.

I'm really hoping this is complete too. (I wouldn't mind that Martel vs Larry Z match from that card; I feel like the one from July 85 is unsatisfying). We don't have the Backlund vs Robinson match from the February 85 Meadowlands card, right? We have a lot of it but not that or the Valiant/Youngbloods vs Larry/Nick/Dory match.

Congrats on finishing this round. It's an interesting list. One thing that was striking with GWE was the difference between 2007 and 2017. Did you guys feel that here too or not? The top ten might not bear it out but I'm not sure that's true for the rest of the list.

Does being a compelling promo matter less in a tag setting, not necessary because of the ability to hide or lean on someone else but because the innate narrative structure inherent in tag matches that can be more easily tossed aside in singles matches?

I don't want to see Rollins wrestle anyone, but if I had to see Rollins wrestle someone on the roster, Roode is probably up there. He'd base and stooge for him and prevent him from doing too many stupid things. I'm not saying it'd be a great match but it'd probably be solid and not annoy me. I saw Rude have a pretty excellent house show style match with Cedric at an NXT show a few years back. Sometimes I wonder if he's just not a good TV wrestler or what.

Yeah, get back to that solo project. That thing was great.

Kelly is a scholar and a gentleman, though.