Matt D

I like his rudo stuff more than I like Santo's rudo stuff generally, but I know I'm a crazy outlier there.

Fear. He's become the Dennis Miller of elite 1980s wrestling commentary.

I don't entirely think traditional metrics for draw really matter all that much in the post-attitude era. Turning around trends probably matters to a degree. Merch sales matter to a degree. I'm not sure what matters though. Youtube hits? Regardless Post 2002 Bigger Draw DNE Bigger Star. I didn't entirely find Dylan's argument for Cena as GWWE #1 compelling, for instance, in that he was the main guy for so long and business is doing well now on relative means, in part because there was no boom period under Cena. They skipped the Boom. Maybe that was because Benoit. Maybe that was because WWE not pushing stars in ways they did in the past. Maybe it was because MMA took the boom instead, but while there was stabilization under Cena, there was no boom like there was with Hogan and Austin.

Im not convinced you can compare ratings or buyrates well between even 09 and 13. There was a tv and streaming revolution between those years.

I viewed this match as Wagner throwing the entire history of lucha libre at Kanemoto, escalating all the way to the Splash Mountain, and Kanemoto showing the supremacy of Japanese heart and heroism. Wagner, more than anyone else, benefits from who he would become, because you look closely for the extra bits of swagger that he would show five or six years later, and if you look closely enough, you do see it. The majority of the match is a massive rudo beatdown with Wagner hitting him with everything his country would have to offer. I though the initial transition was uninteresting and some of the cutoffs were as well, but that the hope spot set ups and comeback did get more interesting in the stretch. The match is extremely effective for what it was meant to be (so long as I'm reading it right) and you can tell that from the crowd's reaction. It's hard to fault something for what it is in this case, especially given the setting. There were certain structural things I liked, such as the fight for the initial crucifix bomb or teasing the tiger suplex earlier to pay it off at the end. Honestly, this felt like the wrestling version of a war between Mexico and Japan, where Mexico launched every weapon it had and Japan persevered and won the day. It felt a little like what Inoki always wanted from his big jingoistic matches, but Kanemoto was selfish and self-assured enough to make it work through selling and fighting from underneath.

This is kind of interesting if only because of how much bigger wrestling was in, let's say, 2000-2001 than in 2014. Does one of the most over, relatively, people in the history of the company in 2014, get trumped by an extremely over midcarder in 2001. Jeff was more of a commodity in 2002 than 2001 but I think by then, it's too late and wrestling was cooling off. If Jeff had peaked as a mid-carder in 99, I think he'd have a real argument against 2014 anyone, because wrestling matters so much less in 2014. WWE's just gotten better at squeezing more out of less, but it was much more of a national phenomenon and general part of the culture when Jeff was coming up. Peak main eventer vs peak main eventer (the main question here) isn't an argument. Bryan destroys Jeff. Jeff's a great babyface with a real connection to the crowd. Bryan is a once in a generation, transcendent figure. It's just he was a transcendent figure when wrestling doesn't really matter. Bryan vs a secondary major babyface of 1999 would be more interesting, I think. Bryan vs Foley maybe.

I'd like to mention that the best MSG sellout statistic lying was from Frank Bonnema who repeatedly said that Stan Stasiak broke records and sold it out for a decade as a main eventer or something.

We live in awesome times and in a great community. I'm switching between unearthed 80s and 90s Japanese handhelds, 00-01 Monterrey lucha with Negro Casas, and on my queue are Kanemoto/Wagner, a Fujiwara match that shodate suggested, the Casas/Cavernario tag title challenge from last week, and whatever the heck Daniel Bryan is going to do this tuesday night in a TV match.

T-Bone Tazplex.

Oh, don't worry about Parv. He's just become a mustache-twirling, reactionary, arch-conservative villain in his middle age.

Week 16 Winged Eagle is out for another week. Laz is out for a bit. Rah is out for a bit. joeg's missed a couple of weeks, so he's off until he says otherwise. Edger is taking a week off. We've still got 10 people. oldbirds HeadCheese shodate jetlag DR Ackerman Tim Evans AstroBoy Nintendo Logic dawho5 Richeyedwards And I'm #11 this week. If joe pops back, I'll pair with him; otherwise I'm off. Enjoy.

1. I kind of feel like I took this one for the team. 2. That said, I'm glad HC is here because, as I said before, we're all specialists and this is a viable bit of pro wrestling. 3. Part of me wishes shodate saw this instead. That idea cracked me up more than anything in the match. 4. Wrestling is symbolic. This is a viable bit. It draws. It produces something that is a form of entertainment. It's a low form, certainly, but there are bits that can transfer over. Pro wrestling analysis is so underdeveloped that it feels novel to say that. NWA guy in blue who drink the bad chinese beer was selling his stomach in a way that some other heel might have sold a cast injury or in a comedy match, his lost hair by having a mask over it. There were miscommunication spots. There were the faces (presuming they're faces in this situation) capitalizing and humiliating the heel. Some of this stuff works in 1984 Mid South as well as it works here in 2017 DDT. It's just the details that are different. So long as the fans buy into the reality presented to them, that really doesn't matter. I mean there are people out there who looked at Dumb and Dumber and wrote academic papers on it, I'm sure. I care about commitment because it's an expression of selling, in as you're expressing to the crowd that what is currently happening has weight and value and meaning. Everyone in this match was committed. I don't have a lot of use for Danshoku Dino's act, but I didn't mind the other guys in there. Guy-in-blue-with-stomach-problems coming back out with the TP was sort of the symbolic equivalent of the beat up tecnico who had his masked ripped off coming back out to save his partners in a trios with a new mask. It all sort of fits together. It's just I think I saw that more than they did, and they didn't go far enough in committing to not just the joke but the match. I actually think it's doable and I think they could have done it if they were just a little more self aware. It's like how someone can work hard and work smart at once. I'm not convinced someone can't work high absurdist and smart at the same time. It's all just looping together spots and moments. Also the singing before the match really wasn't over. That bugged me. If you do something for that long, make sure it's over. I'm spinning the wheel tonight. Anyone else who needs a week off or wants to jump in, lemme know.

Oh I hope so I want 1998 Attitude extra segments. There won't be extras for Heat since those were usually taped before RAW. But there is a specific moment in a highlight package where you see Austin giving McMahon the stunner and the tshirt he wore he only wore once on TV which was on Heat so they deffinately have footage after broadcast. We can all be this at times, but I'm still posting it:

I also tend to hold Conrad to the standard I'd hold you guys to, and it bugs me when he fails that standard. Some times that's not mentioning why Terry Boy is named Terry Boy, even though Tony would appreciate it. Sometimes it's not mentioning a Bischoff sign in ECW without mentioning talent swiping (Tony figured it was just because Bischoff was a good heel on TV). It's stuff we'd never miss. It's probably not fair to judge him on that but if he's not able to add that and if he's detracting in other ways, well....

I'm not recommending it to anyone but him but it's casual but still about 60% Tony watching the show. The dick jokes go too far, like always (though Tony is pretty quick with them) but he's flabbergasted by a lot of it and some of the goofy stuff like them doing fake Taz voiceovers promos are kind of funny. It's just surreal. I'm seriously thinking of switching over to this Jameson interview now that we've hit the main even though.

Mooney having to go back to the main MLW feed after trying to go premium for four episodes was a fairly brutal listen.

Listen to Tony watch ECW from this week. I'm not saying EVERYONE should, but you should. A little goes a long way but it's appropriately surreal and ridiculous.

I think some of the issue is due to the multiple hats that Dave wears. He's a reporter, a historian, an entertainer, a critic, and, in this case, a friend. His comment is more than appropriate in some of those roles and probably on average, but Dave isn't just a reporter/historian clarifying a point.

If history is an indication, cue three pages of people wondering if he's on the spectrum.

My feelings exactly.

I've had that issue as well.

I thoroughly enjoyed this and it was not at all what I was expecting. I want to see a bunch more Kanemoto now, and am actually easier on the finish than a lot of other people were even if I think it didn't need to go QUITE so far. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/20204-el-samurai-vs-koji-kanemoto/ I'm still going to take a look at that DDT match from Head Cheese. Recent DDT is definitely a blind spot, and it's easier to be in the general conversation if I watch stuff out of my comfort zone sometimes so I'm ok doing it. We're a bunch of specialists here on PWO, as opposed to generalists, so I guess it's good HC has "modern comedy wrestling" covered. In general, I wonder if people think we should take a week off. I certainly haven't been keeping track of who's been keeping up with things and who hasn't. This is all for fun so while I'd hope people are being upfront when they might not be around and going out of their way to at least give their partner a match, I can also see how it could be frustrating both for people whose matches aren't being watched AND for people who have good intentions but find themselves 2-3 matches in a hole. Overall, I've really enjoyed doing this for the last few months though, both getting things I wouldn't normally see and getting to pick things I think specific people might find specifically interesting.

That Mr. X vs HTM match from Toronto was such a joy when I cant across it the first time.

Looking at Thursday morning to spin the wheel.

Let's not feud Bryan with the still-quasi-green guy with the big boot? I mean just saying.