Talk about it here.

So this is the big match that launched the NWO. This was really booked well. Taking out Luger made it seem like he might be a suspect, Sting 'accidentally' taking out Luger made it look like he might be a suspect, and they have a below average match, but the heat is through the roof, and the surprise definitely delivered on the hype. Looking forward to seeing all the week-to-week Hollywood Hogan stuff again. This remains the most famous last five minutes on a show in PPV history.

Rewatching it, what were your feelings about "YEAH, BUT WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON?"?

Rewatching it, what were your feelings about "YEAH, BUT WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON?"?

It was pretty terrible. The Great American Bash with Heenan not at the broadcast booth was so much better. Dusty and Tony worked really well together. Heenan sat there and told jokes, but only spoke in generalizations about the wrestling. He never really had any genuine observations that gave any clue that he was paying attention to what he was watching.

 

But anyway, that's not what you asked me. It really did take away from the moment a lot, especially when this time period may have been Tony Schiavone at his best.

 

Heenan's timing was also really off. The "Hulk Hogan has betrayed WCW" soundbyte came a little too soon, because he didn't really reveal himself as the third man until Hall and Nash got back in the ring and hi-fived him.

 

"Hulk Hogan, you can go to hell. Straight to hell" is a great Schiavone line, considering that this is a pretty square guy who regularly went out of his way to say "Oh my goodness" regularly instead of taking the Lord's name in vain.

I have to admit Bobby comparing Psychosis to Peg Bundy in the opener of Bash at the Beach 96 always gets a laugh out of me. Tenay almost breaks several times trying not to laugh at Bobby's (and Dusty's) jokes.

 

WCW was always a more serious product than the WWF and Bobby seemingly could not adjust save a few instances I guess

 

the same can be said for Cornette not being able to adjust to the WWF style

I didn't think Heenan took away from the moment at all. I remember watching it as a 16 year old in my pre-internet days and when Heenan said "but whose side is he on?" it just kind of made me think "no...they wouldn't, would they?" then Hogan dropped the leg on Savage and brought the holy shit moment. In retrospect if Heenan had been clamoring for Hogan to get to the ring that would have been a worse giveaway because they'd been bitter enemies for 15 years and Heenan had NEVER said a nice word about Hogan on TV.

I always thought that one of the nice touches of the NWO angle, was Bobby being all "I've been trying to tell you people for years!" about Hogan.

It;s been a long time since I've seen this and i can see how it pissed some people off, but I also took it as heenan never trusted hogan.

It;s been a long time since I've seen this and i can see how it pissed some people off, but I also took it as heenan never trusted hogan.

For decades, Heenan hated Hogan. Having him cheer Hogan as saviour would be wrong. The "you can't trust him" tone fitted perfectly with Heenan's character. Remember he also used to keep suggesting Dusty would be the third man too

I think he should have just stayed completely silent at first.

Probably difficult for Heenan and the crew to know exactly what to say (or not to say) considering I believe they were left entirely in the dark as to the identity of the mystery man, or how the angle was to unfold.

Even "I'm not sure I've ever been so happy to see Hulk Hogan" would have been better.

 

If WCW left them completely in the dark, that is pretty amateur.

 

Either way, it subtracted from the moment.

 

But if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the possibility of Hogan turning kind of an open secret? I know he didn't agree to it until the last minute, but even PWI Weekly had a "Will Hogan join Diesel and Ramon?" headline a few weeks in advance. Not sure what the WON reported about it in the weeks before the show.

The Torch from the week before BATB was reporting that Hogan was the most likely partner.

 

One interesting note from that issue of the Torch is that WCW had gimmick names planned for Hall and Nash that were in the process of being cleared for trademark issues, but if they didn't clear by the PPV they would just use their real names.

I gotta tell ya, I watched this PPV live and I don't even remember Heenan saying "YEAH, BUT WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON?" At the time, it was just a chaotic scene on TV and all the announcing wasn't registering all that much. I think the whole "BOBBY HEENAN RUINED IT" shit is a result of people re-watching it over and over as well as people reading what Heenan said and going back to watch it again to this day and saying, "Hey, he DID say that!"

I think it's partly that and also maybe partly due to WWE editing out that line at least a few times when it was aired on a couple of DVD releases. When you watch it now the line sort of stands out since your brain is subconsciously used to it being gone.

 

Personally, I thought it was one of the great announcer performances in WCW ever. Loss already covered Tony being disgusted enough to use mild profanity (which from him had the effect of an f-bomb), and Heenan finally being vindicated but not being able to enjoy it due to the enormity of the situation. Even Mean Gene looked like he wanted to fight someone in the post match interview (which may have been legit since he had to stand in the ring while it was getting bombarded with trash).

Tony Schiavone's last line is simply one of the best ever, and the delivery was perfect. Before he got disgusted with WCW, Schiavone, at his best, was a damn good wrestling announcer.

FWIW, Scott Hall did say in his Torch Talk that there was a lot of heat on Heenan for that, and that when he and Nash watched the tape back, they couldn't believe he said that.

 

WCW was pretty attentive to detail at this point. They had clearly communicated to Heenan that they didn't want him praising the NWO.

 

Somewhere along the way, someone probably dropped the ball. Either Heenan was given no guidance and was left in the dark, or he fumbled. I agree that it's not a huge deal, and that the moment is a classic moment with or without that line, but it is worth discussing whether or not it was the right thing to say.

 

It stood out because at this point, WCW was so good at thinking through small things like that. I would think that the producers would have thought as soon as the Hogan turn was a go, "How should we handle Heenan?"

 

Again, I think letting Dusty and Tony do the talking until after the turn would have been the simplest way to handle it, but I also have the benefit of 15 years of hindsight.

 

While I do disagree with those who think it was logical for him to say that and see the point about how Heenan was vindicated, I do see the logic behind that argument too.

 

Changing the subject, this has to be one of the top heel promos of all time, right?

In terms of $$$, yes... in terms of "he's an evil bastard", I wouldn't call it on a par with Jake's at Survivor Series etc...

Tony Schiavone's last line is simply one of the best ever, and the delivery was perfect. Before he got disgusted with WCW, Schiavone, at his best, was a damn good wrestling announcer.

Schiavone and Jesse are my favourite WCW announcing pair. I never really felt he gelled with Bobby right from the get go, but it's a damn shame that Schiavone became so loathed during the Monday Night Wars.

I always thought it would be more in character for Heenan to praise Hogan and the nWo. Hes a weasel, what is more weaselly than sucking up to a guy you hated for years because you think he has the power.

In defence of Bobby, I really love his line about the fan not lasting long, which is particularly funny in the Lebron James version.

Tony Schiavone's last line is simply one of the best ever, and the delivery was perfect. Before he got disgusted with WCW, Schiavone, at his best, was a damn good wrestling announcer.

Schiavone and Jesse are my favourite WCW announcing pair. I never really felt he gelled with Bobby right from the get go, but it's a damn shame that Schiavone became so loathed during the Monday Night Wars.

 

I love Schiavone/Jesse too. The problem is that Heenan really didn't care during the Monday Night War days, and it showed. Tony worked much better with Dusty or Jesse. Once he stopped caring and became cynical, Tony got bad, but it's stupid to remember him only for his last few years. At his best Tony was excellent.

Heenan tells the story (and I'm sure most of you've heard it since Heenan retells lots of his stories in multiple places) about having a suggestion early on about Payne/Jack vs Nasties and some way to start the show and Bischoff telling him to just announce and let them worry about things. And that was basically it about him caring.

 

I like Tony/Jesse but I feel like Monsoon (and maybe JR but I haven't heard much of that recently) was the only person who could handle Jesse. Both Vince and even more so Tony, get utterly steamrolled by him. There are so many lines where Jesse will say something and Tony will just end up totally at a loss. Sometimes, when he was feeling particularly brave, he'd shoot out a comeback that made no sense. you got the impression that Jesse liked him though.

I don't think I've actually ever seen this match all the way through. It was good and obviously the ending was classic. Was this the first time they actually put a name to the outsiders as Hall and Nash?

Heenan tells the story (and I'm sure most of you've heard it since Heenan retells lots of his stories in multiple places) about having a suggestion early on about Payne/Jack vs Nasties and some way to start the show and Bischoff telling him to just announce and let them worry about things. And that was basically it about him caring.

 

I like Tony/Jesse but I feel like Monsoon (and maybe JR but I haven't heard much of that recently) was the only person who could handle Jesse.

I always felt that was because Jesse had the utmost respect for Gorilla.