I'm not basing this solely on WWE work. If I was I'd rate Bret above Flair for sure.

 

I love Eddy and won't argue with those who prefer him to Rey. But I think Rey is the greatest tv match wrestler of all time and there is more depth to his career. That's not just because of Eddy dying either. Eddy had more down time/rough patches than Rey even in the relevant years of their run as stars up to that point. I get the argument that Eddy was great at being both a face and a heel, but I think Rey is one of the three or four greatest pure babyfaces in wrestling history and think only a delusional lunatic would even want to see him work heel. Seems wrong to fault him for being transcendentally great at his role.

I wasn't talking just WWE. Of those who were world champions in the WWE, the only ones I think have a strong case for having a stronger body of work than Bret are Flair and Eddy.

 

As for Eddy/Rey, I can see the TV match argument, but I feel like something like that doesn't reflect ability as much as effort. I'm basically of the opinion that if you're great when you want to be, you're great. It's for that reason that I value peak performance above all else, and I think Eddy has more high-end matches to his credit than Rey does.

Just curious what the argument would be for Shawn Michaels over John Cena. Obviously not overall value/importance, but I understand that isn't the question proposed. Is he really better based soley on ringwork? I don't think Shawn had the range in opponents and I think Johns best matches are better (unless you count the Midnight Rockers v Rose/Somers matches...but I mean singles matches where he's the big contributor). I also think John is a much better big match babyface worker.

 

Also, I too think Mysterio is better than Guerrero at this point. Rey is every bit as good or better in terms of working different match roles against a bucketload of different opponents and pulling out quality matches out of them on a more consistent basis. Rey/Riley vs Miz/Swagger tornado tag from Raw last year was amazingly great and that was all Rey Mysterio carrying 3 sub par workers on his back all the way through. None of those guys have done shit anywhere near as good as that match since. Everywhere you turn there's a good or great Mysterio match against a completely different opponent, in a completely different setting, in a completely different place on the card.

 

That's one of the main reasons why I think Raw is such a shit show lately, because even on the worst of Raws, you could at least count on Rey to provide a good match somewhere on there. He's deeply missed.

Anybody who included the Big Gold Belt- any reason for not including Benoit?

Anybody who included the Big Gold Belt- any reason for not including Benoit?

Speaking for myself but I have never been quite as high on Benoit as others. I've talked about this with Will before, but Benoit is a guy who I know was great, but I never had a real connection to any of his matches the way I have with truly great matches from others. I could see him above Cena on my list. Anything else feels like a stretch.

 

On the subject of body of work NinLogic brought up, I think Rey easily has the biggest body of work after Flair. I don't even think Bret is close

Surely Lawler and Funk and maybe Hansen and Jumbo have bigger bodies of work, no?

Surely Lawler and Funk and maybe Hansen and Jumbo have bigger bodies of work, no?

I was talking about guys who have held a WWE version of the big belt

Jumbo does, Lawler probably does, and Funk might. I'm not as high on Terry Funk as most people, mainly because the wobbly selling feels too "acted" and that's such a huge part of his act. But still, it's possible he had more good matches than Rey. But I'm not certain of that.

Oh right, carry on. That belt doesn't even exist in my mind.

Jumbo does, Lawler probably does, and Funk might. I'm not as high on Terry Funk as most people, mainly because the wobbly selling feels too "acted" and that's such a huge part of his act. But still, it's possible he had more good matches than Rey. But I'm not certain of that.

Funk's punch drunk selling feels too acted but Flair taking the exact same bumps in every match doesn't?

 

Nope.

 

On the subject of body of work NinLogic brought up, I think Rey easily has the biggest body of work after Flair. I don't even think Bret is close

Of good matches, yes. But I think Bret comes out ahead on the number of transcendently great ones. I don't know how many Rey has that don't involve Eddy.

Right, I've had some time to think about this, watch some classic matches and I've decided things need a bit of tweaking - just as Rolling Stone updated their 100 greatest guitarists list following enormous flaws. I still think RVD deserves to be in the list because he is an exceptionally gifted performer capable of working many different styles and a guy who uses his entire body as a selling canvas, which we're seeing a re-emergencein recent time with the likes of Dolph Ziggler who have mastered the ability to bump correctly whilst still making it look like they've been folded in half. So...

 

 

1. Shawn Michaels

2. Ric Flair

3. Bruno Sammartino

4. Steve Austin

5. Bret Hart

6. Hulk Hogan

7. Kurt Angle

8. Rey Mysterio

9. Bob Backlund

10. Eddie Guerrero

11. CM Punk

12. Chris Jericho

13. Brock Lesnar

14. The Undertaker

15. Edge

16. Randy Savage

17. Randy Orton

18. Triple H

19. Rob Van Dam

20. The Rock

 

I do have some controversial views when it comes to wrestling, for instance I think that Owen Hart was the most naturally talented of the Hart family and had he been in a similar position that Bret had found himself in, in the early 1990's - it's possible that Owen would have gone on to have similar success.

I decided to do it for the Big Gold Belt.

 

1. Mysterio

2. Michaels

3. Bryan

4. Cena

5. Punk

6. Hardy

7. Benoit

8. Undertaker

9. Angle

10. Jericho

11. Edge

12. Ziggler

13. Christian

14. Booker

15. Sheamus

16. Batista

17. Goldberg

18. Big Show

19. Henry

20. Kane

21. Triple H

22. Orton

23. Swagger

24. Khali

 

I haven't been an avid watcher of wrestling the last couple years and I haven't seen much of Mark Henry's resurgence. I'm trying to be fair to him but I may have underrated him.

Here is how I would place those who have held the World Heavyweight Championship:

 

1. Shawn Michaels

2. Chris Benoit

3. Daniel Bryan

4. Kurt Angle

5. Rey Mysterio

6. CM Punk

7. Chris Jericho

8. Christian

9. The Undertaker

10. Edge

11. Randy Orton

12. Booker T

13. Triple H

14. Dolph Ziggler

15. Jeff Hardy

16. Big Show

17. Goldberg

18. Kane

19. Batista

20. John Cena

21. Jack Swagger

22. Sheamus

23. Mark Henry

24. The Great Khali

When did Ziggler win the title?

When did Ziggler win the title?

It was during that bullshit with Edge when Vickie was GM of Smackdown and banned the Spear. He only had it for like 20 minutes, then lost it right back to Edge when Teddy Long re-instated him or whatever.

 

I don't think it really counts.

When did Ziggler win the title?

It was during that bullshit with Edge when Vickie was GM of Smackdown and banned the Spear. He only had it for like 20 minutes, then lost it right back to Edge when Teddy Long re-instated him or whatever.

 

I don't think it really counts.

 

Yeah I remembered that but also did not count it, so was confused why people were ranking him and thought I missed something else.

It's officially recognized, I guess.

 

http://www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/worldheavyweight

Yeah but come on, is anyone really going to stand here and tell me Ziggler was a better champion than someone like Mark Henry, on virtue of body of work as a non champion? Really?