While checking out WKO, I came across the following topic:

http://z11.invisionfree.com/wrestling_ko/i...?showtopic=5078

 

This seems like it'd be a fun topic to discuss, so I thought I'd bring it over here. My initial inclination is to say most likely yes, but I'd have to give it more thought to know exactly where. I can say with absolute certainty that I would never in a million years rank him above Jumbo Tsuruta.

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I'm Blackheart over there, and already said no. I can't say what it is, but I get the feeling the big Cena fans are seeing something in his matches I don't. Like when I watch Monsta Mack bend a ladder in half by merely trying to jump off of it and I wonder why it isn't recognised as the greatest moment in ROH history. I'll cop to admitting there's a little visceral apathy to Cena, but I don't see a top 100 wrestler in him.

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I made a "Rank Em" thread asking where people would rank Ricky Morton as an all timer and someone did one for Cena. It's worked similar to a DVDVR purotopia great appreciation debate where there's poll options of "top this-and-that".

I voted "maybe" over there. The advantage Cena has is that his best matches and performances are really great, memorable affairs and he was almost always the best wrestler in those matches. The knock on him would be that he is extremely inconsistent.

Not a chance.

John Cena is a guy I really like. I think he's a really good wrestler. But I don't think he'd make my top 100. That is in no way a criticism of him. It's more that there are a lot of wrestlers I'd put above him.

Nope.

At this stage in my wrestling intake, probably, but I can't say he'd be a guarantee after I get a good feel of other guys out there.

Shit, I could see Cena easily cracking my Top 100. He definitely wouldn't crack my Top 50 but Top 100 for the amount of great matches he has had isn't unrealistic at all.

Doubtful. I like Cena more often than not, but I think it would be pretty easy to list a hundred people I like more. He might fit in my Top 250, but only in the bottom half.

I would be interested to see how people rate Cena next to other guys who aren't generally considered great workers by everyone, but were involved in many major main event programs and have a sizable amount of good and even great matches. I'm thinking of guys like Taker, Sting, Jericho, Luger, et.

 

I would safely have Cena above those guys myself, but I don't really see him as an obvious pick for the next level up either.

Not a chance.

This.

 

Although that's because I simply don't watch the modern product. Sure he's got loads of great matches etc., it's just that I've got zero interest in them.

Not a chance.

Sure he's got loads of great matches etc., it's just that I've got zero interest in them.

 

Oddly this is how I feel about Jumbo for the most part, though I'd still have him in a top 100

Yes. Probably somewhere between 30-50. I've always been a fan, but I can't put him ahead of my faves from the 70s-90s, who are on another level IMO.

That is pretty surprising Dylan.

 

My one qualifier on both Cena and "the modern product" is that the dude I picked up Primetime from threw in the complete run of RAW from 2005 for free and Will once accidentally sent me Match of the Year discs for 2010. So there's a possibility I'll give those a look at some point.

 

Based on 80s All Japan alone Jumbo is top 20 for me easily, if not 10.

I can't even imagine putting Cena in a list of top 100 wrestlers. His selling for the beginning and middle of a match can be good at times, but the lack of any transition into his comebacks, the neverending sloppy STF's, and the constant smirking at the hard camera grate on my nerves.

I would be interested to see how people rate Cena next to other guys who aren't generally considered great workers by everyone, but were involved in many major main event programs and have a sizable amount of good and even great matches. I'm thinking of guys like Taker, Sting, Jericho, Luger, et.

 

I would safely have Cena above those guys myself, but I don't really see him as an obvious pick for the next level up either.

I can't bring myself to rank him above Taker, but Taker's worst is so bad I don't think I'll have that opinion forever. Plus Cena's having more and more good matches as the years go by. Sting.....this comparison was brought up with me an a few other guys sometime in 2010 or 2011, and I seemed to be the only one who thought Sting might be better or even comparable, but at this point I'd probably give it to Cena. *Pretty* confident I'd have him above Jericho and Luger. Though I'll say if I had a choice b/w a random match from any guy there, Cena would be the last guy I'd choose.

 

I'll probably actually come up with 100 guys and gals (not that many gals since my joshi viewings are limited) who I'd put above him later tonight for the fun of it.

Not even close.

No,

 

If it was top 250 then yes, definitely.

Cena brings nothing but apathy from me. I wish he still had the rap gimmick or just something different to his Rock - lite shtick. Almost everything he does in the ring does looks goofy. He's had some quality matches but only the Umaga match sticks. I can't invest or get behind someone so dull.

 

Where would you chaps rate him in comparison with the other company 'faces' (Hogan, Bret, Rock, Austin etc.) I feel he's a major step down from the heroes past.

He would not be anywhere close to my top 100. If I were to break it down, I’m sure he does certain things well. But he’s never connected with me at all. I guess maybe part of that is his weak character, but it also feels like his in-ring style doesn’t fit the persona. Moreover, his style also seems undefined. Like he’ll do flying leg drops but then bust out power moves. I’m not really sure what he’s trying to portray.

 

Mechanically, he moves sort of awkwardly and his execution can be really loose and sloppy at times. Also, his expressiveness and facial reactions seem really forced to me. Like he’s always playing a character instead of being himself.

Cena brings nothing but apathy from me. I wish he still had the rap gimmick or just something different to his Rock - lite shtick. Almost everything he does in the ring does looks goofy. He's had some quality matches but only the Umaga match sticks. I can't invest or get behind someone so dull.

 

Where would you chaps rate him in comparison with the other company 'faces' (Hogan, Bret, Rock, Austin etc.) I feel he's a major step down from the heroes past.

Well working wise, the only person I would relate him to is Bruno because I always thought Bruno sucked at wrestling. However, he doesn't have even a fraction of the heat or support that Bruno did.

 

Let's face it:

- Bad execution - the man still can't figure out how to apply an STF 9 years in.

- Questionable selling

- Undefined character/gimmick - A wannabe rapping marine who makes poop jokes?

- He's only over with half of the crowd with the over half hating him - Good luck finding people booing Austin or Bruno during their big face runs. He would have been turned/fired in any other era. He doesn't even get that big of a reaction compared with guys of past era's. Also, WWE uses about 90% fake crowd heat these days, so it's hard to even tell. Watch the attitude era and you'll see the differences between current day WWE manipulated heat and real heat.

- Inconsistent promo skills - Cena gets a few good ones in each year but then has two or three bad ones to negate them

 

He's had some good matches, but if I put say 5 of them up against anyone's best except Bruno and maybe Hogan to a degree depending on how you rate him, he's going to lose.

 

Keep in mind that this is just WWF guys only. Put him up against Flair, Lawler, Bockwinkle and others and he's going down.

I would be interested to see how people rate Cena next to other guys who aren't generally considered great workers by everyone, but were involved in many major main event programs and have a sizable amount of good and even great matches. I'm thinking of guys like Taker, Sting, Jericho, Luger, et.

 

I would safely have Cena above those guys myself, but I don't really see him as an obvious pick for the next level up either.

When I tried to make a list of wrestlers who had a strong case for being ranked above Cena, Taker and Jericho were both on it. Not that they're definitely better than him, but it's close. Cena is clearly above Sting and Luger, though.

 

Where would you chaps rate him in comparison with the other company 'faces' (Hogan, Bret, Rock, Austin etc.) I feel he's a major step down from the heroes past.

Hart and Austin are clearly better. Rock is probably better, though he's hurt by so many Attitude Era matches being heavily gimmicked and/or overbooked. As for Hogan, the case can be made that peak Hogan beats peak Cena. But Cena has the edge in terms of week-in week-out performance and sheer volume of good-to-great matches.

Let's face it:

- Bad execution - the man still can't figure out how to apply an STF 9 years in.

Cena's not an idiot by any means. He apparently has Arn Anderson as his personal agent. To me, if he's still doing the STF that way, there's a reason for it.