My argument isn't really that Heyman himself hurt these guys careers. My argument is that Punk, Ryback, Axel, and Cesaro all came out worse post-Heyman. It's like Heyman was the gateway to bad booking. On Axel, yeah he wasn't over, but he was in mid-card title matches frequently. After he split with Heyman, he went even more south.

Punk did not definitively win a single match of note with Heyman in his corner. He became Miz 2.0, a guy who flukes his way through and is the ultimate wimp who couldn't hang with the real stars. It's an abysmal way to try and elevate someone.

Isn't that more a (very warranted) critique of how the WWE regularly books their main event heels rather than something that should be attributed to Heyman? If Punk didn't align with Heyman, is he booked that differently?

Still 5-6 weeks or so until the Rumble, but after last night I think its possible Cena wins at the Rumble. I think this would make for a much better Mania at this point, which certainly isn't something I imagined saying a while back. Still too late to heat Reigns up to that level, but him vs. Cena I think makes for a more interesting card, and lets you do do Lesnar/Taker again (just don't see him being paired with Bryan, who we don't yet know if he'll be back at all, unless Taker is truly out) along with HHH/Sting. If somehow Bryan is healthy and and the Bray/Taker rumors are legit, that would open up that match up as well. Just a lot more options with no Lesnar/Reigns on the books.

Punk did not definitively win a single match of note with Heyman in his corner. He became Miz 2.0, a guy who flukes his way through and is the ultimate wimp who couldn't hang with the real stars. It's an abysmal way to try and elevate someone.

 

He was in a three way at Survivor Series and then was injured for six weeks so that's not really fair.

People were proposing Lesnar v. Rusev. That would be sick

I'm more thinking that Cena-Reigns is the obvious Mania 32 main event.

On Alvarez's show he claimed WWE put a stop on Brock's merchandise, and to produce Shemus ones in its place. People think Brock's going to Bellator for a bit and eventually back to the WWE. This could change a lot of what they're going to do going into Mania.

Isn't that more a (very warranted) critique of how the WWE regularly books their main event heels rather than something that should be attributed to Heyman? If Punk didn't align with Heyman, is he booked that differently?

 

Not to mention that the whole point of aligning with Heyman and doing the booking that way was to get legit heel heat on a guy that the fans still wanted to cheer. Short of going back to SES "conversion" pledges during promos, Punk was not going to get strong heel heat simply because he was attacking faces instead of heels.

Also, to be fair to Cesaro, despite what Vince stated, and despite this never hitting the dirt sheets as a possibility, I wonder if Brock's limited schedule fucked up the whole idea that Cesaro would be the pawn/gatekeeper in terms of someone a Cena/Reigns/whomever would have to go through to get to Brock, and then turn once realizing he was being used as a patsy.

 

I know we are dealing with ADD booking, but I wonder if that ever was an actual plan, but got scrapped due to how little both Heyman and Brock would be factoring into the main event storylines after defeating Cena at SummerSlam?

My argument isn't really that Heyman himself hurt these guys careers. My argument is that Punk, Ryback, Axel, and Cesaro all came out worse post-Heyman. It's like Heyman was the gateway to bad booking. On Axel, yeah he wasn't over, but he was in mid-card title matches frequently. After he split with Heyman, he went even more south.

 

Exactly.

 

Heyman is like the IC/US belt (Rusev's reign aside) in the sense that creative automatically goes into a weird "he doesn't need to be protected/put in a compelling feud, he already has a title/great mouthpiece" mode. So they find ways to justify that wrestler jobbing every show or being lost in the shuffle. Same thing happened with the MITB briefcase before Rollins.

Last night was as prime a reason as you can get for Raw only running two hours. Decent opening segment with Cena cutting his most natural, enjoyable promo in a long time. Then you have ninety minutes of complete garbage to fast forward before the slightly more interesting Heyman/Jericho and Mizdow stuff [hate Miz but it at least seems to have a direction and storyline to it]. The Divas tag wasn't bad, although the wrong team won - The Bella Twins should be dominating the division. The main event delivered, really good match.

 

Had to laugh at the hushed, serious tones of commentary when Lesnar & Rollins made their 'dark deal', as though two heels siding together was somehow a shocking twist and turn.

As for Wrestlemania plans, they might be best to hold off on Reigns and have him get a decisive victory over Rollins to finally put that angle to bed, and then build him up as the successor over the next twelve months before challenging Cena for the strap in 2016.

 

As an offhand card:

 

Daniel Bryan vs Brock Lesnar - WWE Title

John Cena vs The Undertaker [Retirement Match]

Triple-H vs Sting

Roman Reigns vs Seth Rollins

Randy Orton vs Rusev

Nicki Bella vs Brie Bella vs AJ vs Paige [Divas Title]

Sheamus vs Bray Wyatt

Tag Title Match

 

Fuck knows what you do with Ambrose. Mark Henry? Very dependent on injuries and availability though, and whether they can bring themself to give DB the big moment two years straight. It was only very begrudgingly they did it last year.

On Alvarez's show he claimed WWE put a stop on Brock's merchandise, and to produce Shemus ones in its place. People think Brock's going to Bellator for a bit and eventually back to the WWE. This could change a lot of what they're going to do going into Mania.

 

Funny since he had a new shirt last night

 

On Alvarez's show he claimed WWE put a stop on Brock's merchandise, and to produce Shemus ones in its place. People think Brock's going to Bellator for a bit and eventually back to the WWE. This could change a lot of what they're going to do going into Mania.

 

Funny since he had a new shirt last night

 

Alvarez could easily be wrong.

After the reaction show and RAW, this is what I am thinking for Rumble...

 

Royal Rumble

John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar

Dean Ambrose vs. Bray Wyatt (Final Match)

Rusev vs. Ryback (US Title)

Divas Match

Tag match in the pre show

Call me crazy but the only potential Mania match I'm interested in (if they go that route) is Miz vs Mizdow.

I'm not interested in Daniel Bryan Vs. Brock Lesnar from a business perspective at all. Not as a main event, anyway.

 

From a fan perspective, from wanting to see a great match, yeah, sure. You know it would be awesome.

 

I'm not sure it makes too much sense for WWE though. Daniel Bryan already climbed the mountain top & had his big Wrestlemania moment last year. He's not topping that, in my opinion. Beating Brock wouldn't mean as much, in my opinion, as beating Triple H, Batista & Randy Orton all in one night.

 

I don't think that Brock needs the title. I don't think WWE will be real quick to shoot Bryan back to the top & in the title hunt right after coming back. Plus, I'm pretty sure they're dead-set on Roman Reigns getting the big push now, not a year from now, even if he's not ready. That has never stopped them before. They don't exactly slow roll things these days, even when they should. Just look at how long it took for CM Punk to return after he "left" with the title, or when John Cena was "fired" via the Nexus. Even now, with The Authority... They were "fired" & gone from the shows...but even without Triple H & Stephanie McMahon on-air, it doesn't feel like anything has changed. Seth Rollins is still with J&J Security, Kane is still "corporate" Kane & the commentators mention The Authority every segment, to remind us that John Cena has the power to bring them back.

 

I also, sadly, feel like The Undertaker's Wrestlemania mystique is tarnished. His loss hurt him some. That Streak was money. Now that he's lost, to me at least, he's just another old guy; part timer. If he has to be on the card, I think the "special attraction" match is where he'll be. Like 'Taker Vs. Sting or something. They had a license to print money with John Cena Vs. The Undertaker, especially if it were Streak Vs. Title, but 'Taker has lost now & I think the moment has passed.

 

I would do:

 

John Cena© Vs. Roman Reigns

Seth Rollins Vs. Randy Orton

Triple H Vs. Sting

Rusev Vs. The Rock

The Miz Vs. Damien Sandow

 

That leaves Dean Ambrose, The Undertaker, Bray Wyatt, Brock Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, Luke Harper, Dolph Ziggler, Ryback, Sheamus & unfortunately Big Show & Kane with needing something to do.

 

Finding something for the whole card is never easy. I'm just going by what's been on TV. Most of these matches wouldn't even be great matches...but I'm not sure if that's something WWE gives a lot of thought to. They're more storyline driven. What it would do, however, is allow Cena & Orton to give the rub to newer top guys in Reigns & Rollins along with having guys with credibility, like The Rock & The Undertaker put over big someone that will be there the following Monday.

 

A New Day, Jack Swagger, Fandango, Erik Rowan and most the tag teams (Matadores, Rhodes Bros, Usos) all feel dead in the water to me right now. So they gotta do something with them too. If they're going to be on Wrestlemania in some capacity. Same with the Divas.

 

Who knows? They'll probably change their minds a dozen times between now & The Royal Rumble. Brock might keep the belt. Reigns might win the Rumble. Batista, I guess, could come back? No idea on the health status of Bryan or Sheamus or when Orton is coming back. Seems with all the talent they have & 'Mania drawing nearer, there's no excuse for the shows to be as boring & lackluster as they have been. Everything seems RIGHT THERE but they just can't make it click.

The ONLY guy I want to see Lesnar against is Bryan. And both guys status for Mania is questionable. Lesnar vs. anybody else but Cena just doesn't work unless they strap a rocket to someone's ass between now and April. And they absolutely cannot do Cena vs. Lesnar again.

 

I could get behind a Shield triple threat.

 

I don't want Taker involved at all. Induct him into the Hall of Fame and then that's it.

 

Sting vs. HHH will probably be happen and at least it keeps them away from other guys. I could actually seen this being decent.

 

Rusev vs. Ryback is a big match they haven't done yet, but I have a feeling they will do it before Mania so this probably wouldn't work. Ryback vs. Lesnar? They still have a lot of work to do with Ryback before he would be credible at that level.

 

Randy, Sheamus, Bray, Big Show, Kane, Ziggler, I have no idea what they do with any of them. Maybe Barrett will be healthy by then and he could slug it out with Sheamus or Harper or someone similar.

 

I think Harper desrves a big singles match at Mania, but have no idea who he works. Ziggler again? Ehh...

 

Cesaro at this stage will be lucky if he makes the card.

 

Tag teams and midcarders and Divas will be thrown into some multi-person mess.

 

It's amazing how many guys are worse off then they were earlier in the year after the awesome WrestleMania 30. Is there anybody in the company who is in a better position then they were last year? Maybe Rollins?

It is just unbelievable to me the combination of the facts that WWE is such a poorly run promotion and that it is implausible that they will have any real competition in the forseeable future.

Three hours is just killing WWE at this point. How can you possibly expect anyone but the hardcores to sit through that much programming? You're certainly not going to get any curious potential new fans to make that level of investment. They have to be at the point where whatever extra TV money coming from an extra hour of Raw is being outweighed by audience fatigue.

USA loves 3 hours so it is what it is

I think three hours is a scapegoat. The problem is the booking is just bad. If the shows were well booked they could easily put on a consistently entertaining three hour show. They have the roster for it.

Wrestling companies used to answer to their customers and now they answer to TV execs and stockholders.

I thought they had a great thing going with three hours last summer because they had the best workers in position to have long matches that filled the time nicely. Now, those guys are either split up, away from each other or injured.