I was thinking of these two wrestlers and comparing their careers recently and started to wonder which guy people thought was better.

 

Both had really fun matches in long WWF and WCW careers. Both also had Japan runs and a good tag team run (Twin Towers and Faces of Fear).

 

What is interesting is that both guys are really good in the ring, but don't have an abundance of great matches, more great performances.

 

Is there an argument for either guy?

Haku stayed in pretty much the same shape (despite getting a little thicker), while Ray got thinner (and better) in the early 90's. That doesn't have much bearing on your question. Haku couldn't cut a promo and Bossman never struck me as someone who could be as bad-ass as Haku, so it's split down the middle for me.

Haku was a good worker who could have a lot of fair matches but never have good matches. The best Haku match I've seen was when he teamed with Barbarian against the Rockers. I can't think of a good singles match he ever had. But as a personality, he's the type of guy you want as he's just a big bad ass who looks menacing, can smash the jobbers and lower mid-carders, but will lose in most competitive matches.

 

Boss Man was a far better worker who could have a number of good matches against not necessarily spectacular opponents. His cage matches against Hogan immediately come to mind, as does his willingness to take bumps. His work against Curt Hennig was decent, and I don't think Hennig was the one carrying all those matches either; Boss Man brought a type of energy to those matches that Hennig's WWF matches often lacked, partly due to poor opponents, partly due to his repetitive bump-taking without following up with strong offense.

This is a weird comparison. I'll tackle it tomorrow.

Haku stayed in pretty much the same shape (despite getting a little thicker), while Ray got thinner (and better) in the early 90's. That doesn't have much bearing on your question. Haku couldn't cut a promo and Bossman never struck me as someone who could be as bad-ass as Haku, so it's split down the middle for me.

I don't know about the bad ass part. When he was Big Bubba Rogers with the MX I thought he was more of a bad ass than Haku as the Studd Stable's body guard. Since both guys were playing the same exact role.

I lean torwards Bossman

Haku stayed in pretty much the same shape (despite getting a little thicker)

I'm a little puzzled by this because to my eyes Haku never looked big when he was in the Islanders or even later on as King Haku or tagging with Andre. But when he was Meng he was a proper monster heel and a good bit bigger in terms of his physique. Did you really think of him as a big man in WWF?

 

I don't think Haku is given enough credit for how he was able to transition as a worker from being a more agile guy with assorted savate kicks and so on in WWF to being a 300lb beast in WCW.

 

Some screenshots:

 

 

 

Now look at him in WCW:

 

 

 

Almost a different guy in terms of the way he looked and was booked.

I'm kind of with Parv here. There's a huge difference between Islanders face Haku and Monstah Meng with the fro. There's also a big difference between stooging Heenan family Survivor Series 89 Haku and Faces of Fear tag Meng. That said, there's a really big difference between super fat Twin Towers Bossman and relatively lithe flak jacket Bossman.

I'm not necessarily pro-Haku in this debate, just wanted to point out the massive difference between his WWF and WCW incarnations.

 

Has anyone seen early Haku? What was he doing pre-WWF?

 

I kinda feel like the young Big Bubba we see with Cornette and MX is very green and he develops very fast and is pretty good by the time we see him tagging with Akeem.

 

But Haku feels like the complete package from the start with the Islanders. I've not seen King Tonga: The Rookie Years.

He was being awesome in Montreal is what.

I wouldn't want to sit through a 3 Disc DVD offering of either man.

Prefer Bossman but have seen a lot more Traylor than I have Haku.

 

Funny, I just sat through a 3 disc Bossman comp.

I wouldn't want to sit through a 3 Disc DVD offering of either man.

You are right, 3 discs is not enough for either man.

Prefer Bossman but have seen a lot more Traylor than I have Haku.

 

Funny, I just sat through a 3 disc Bossman comp.

Chime in on the Bossman thread on what your favorite stuff was.

I was thinking of doing a sister thread on Barbarian vs. One Man Gang, but was worried that Barb would just landslide it.

 

The vote on this one is actually a lot closer than I would imagine (assumed Bossman would get the popular vote).

We like Haku a lot, especially for the stuff you seem to have not seen. He's a big part of my #3 on my AWA ballot and we had a match of the week where he had a great performance.

 

Have you turned the corner on Bossman at all?

Haku turns up on the AWA set?! I really need to shape up on that front.

 

I was never down on Bossman by the way, I just think DiBiase is a better worker than him.

Faces of Fear in WCw do have the problem of WCW getting rid of its secondary tag belts and still having as many tag teams so a bunch of guys who could've been better protected end up being portrayed as just fodder. I really liked both the FOF v the Rock n Roll Express and against the Fantastics and you have the announcers pretty much treating the face teams like jobbers while the FOF are working competitive enough squashes that the audience is chanting Rock n Roll or buying the Fantastics quick tag near falls. Unfortunately instead of working those guys the FOF were in extended programs with Public Enemy. Still I remember Meltzer giving their Nitro match with Eddie/Jericho a whole bunch of stars.

 

I remember liking Meng/Hashimoto team in New Japan and remember wanting to see the PPV where him and Barbarian worked Blue Wolf and Blue Wolfs brother, but never got around to it. Not sure what else he did in NJ. I can't remember anything from him in AJ. I've enjoyed his stuff in both SWS and WAR.

 

I have only seen one or two of his Arena Mexico Cmll matches, where he was workrate face no selling clotheslines.

 

Only singles matches of his I can remember from WWF run are (1) the heel v heel match with Race, which while I remember liking is all fucked up in terms of heat as crowd has no idea how to treat it and WWF not really good at building heel v heel stuff, and (2) the snme opposite Ultimate Warrior.

 

But the Islanders are one of the best WWF tag style babyface teams and the Barbarian team while short lived in WWF feels like a high end WWF heel team. I would love to see Matt D do a real indepth look at the Colossal Connection stuff ( I think a Matt D does the Machines would be even cooler). And if someone argued that Haku was the GOAT WWF tag worker, I wouldn't be able to argue against that claim.

I really like the Haku/Hercules match from WM5, as far as Haku singles matches go. It might not be a great match, but it's laid out really well, and both guys give good performances.

 

I think Bossman is quite a bit better than Haku though.

But the Islanders are one of the best WWF tag style babyface teams and the Barbarian team while short lived in WWF feels like a high end WWF heel team. I would love to see Matt D do a real indepth look at the Colossal Connection stuff ( I think a Matt D does the Machines would be even cooler). And if someone argued that Haku was the GOAT WWF tag worker, I wouldn't be able to argue against that claim.

There isn't a ton of Colossal Connection on tape and I've already done at least one of the Demolition matches (the MSG match is really good, btw). There's the Rockers match, maybe a few more. How much Machines do we have?

Boss Man was a fine enough hand at his peak, but I'd have to give the edge to Haku. More durable, more versatile.

I wish more people would look at really late Bossman stuff. If you can get away from "Great match" mentality and see a guy in 3-8 minute matches trying to accomplish very specific things and doing an amazing job at accomplishing those things in an interesting way, you can really see how good and smart he was at that point.

Both guys were good. Haku was better as a tag guy. Bossman better as a singles guy as he was a legit threat to any Title he was going after.

 

I'd give an edge to Bossman as he was a good heel and a good babyface and he could be put in that Main Event spot with credibility.

 

King Tonga was a fine Mid Card guy and as Haku..the Islanders made a lot of sucky WWF cards a lot better. But he more enhanced the show than was the show.

He was being awesome in Montreal is what.

And before that King Tonga was being awesome in Puerto Rico. He even had the 'fro when he was a heel.

 

I think they are both similar so its really difficult for me. They were both bodyguards, tag team wrestlers, monsters, slimed down big guys and gaijins in Japan.

 

The thing I find most similar is that they always looked really good in matches, but the amount of great matches was low. They may be two of the greatest wrestlers who didn't have many great matches ever.

 

I'm watching most of Boss Man's matches chronologically right now, so I would go with Boss Man at the moment. However, if I did the same for Meng it may change.