Posted May 22, 201312 yr comment_5545301 I was thinking about the all time greats of the 80s and how the top three are definitely Funk,Lawler, Flair to most people in different orders depending on preference. My question is who is number four? I'm talking guys in the same vein as the three kings that mostly wrestled in the US but also ventured to other countries, so I'm discounting the guys who are lucha and Japan based wrestlers for the majority of their work. So a guy like Hansen would fit because he had enough of a body of work but a guy like Jumbo wouldn't. While these guys are the stars of the 80s I'm still taking their 90s work into consideration as well if need be. The reason I say that is because the end game would be a top 25 list of each of the four guys' matches just to see how they stack up side by side. So who is that fourth guy? Hansen? Bock? If maybe a guy like Dibiase or Rose? I could even see Martel as a dark horse as well as Backlund.
May 22, 201312 yr comment_5545302 I'm not sure there is a definitive fourth. I think there is a case for a few guys, but I'm not sure it's definitive. Even Hogan crossed my mind.
May 22, 201312 yr comment_5545303 I would say the short list would consist of: 1. Hansen 2. Bockwinkel 3. Savage 4. Steamboat 5. Rose I think after this you get a mixture of guys I could see a little case for including Tully, Dibiase, Martel, Backlund, Gordy, Martel, Valentine, and even Slaughter but I wouldn't put them above the top 5 I listed. Posted originally before Loss responded but Hogan crossed my mind to. I do believe if you include the Japan stuff the US wrestlers did Hansen is the definitive fourth with the Tenryu series in 1988, the Hansen/Tenryu tags in 1989, Jumbo match in 1986, the Baba series, Backlund Series, Hennig series, Colon series, and the classic Andre match in 1981.
May 22, 201312 yr Author comment_5545304 Yea Chad I would include everything the US guys did so the Japan stuff would count. The stuff that wouldn't count are primarily Japan guys with only a few US matches. Hope that makes sense
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545326 I think the only lock would be Flair who effectively owned the decade from start to finish. Lawler, Funk, Savage, Rhodes, Race, Bockwinkel and Hogan are, in my mind, the only other ones up for contention to make the list of top 1980s North American performers as they performed at a top level for the bulk of the decade.
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545332 I'm not sure I get the stip for this thread. If it's US only does Funk still get in for sure? If it's all-in I think Hansen has to be there. And Jumbo is a very close 5th. If it's US only, I'm not sure how big the case for Hansen is. Chad -- thinking 80s only why is Savage closer to being a lock than Tully? Just think about their respective outputs. It's very close.
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545338 Parv, Its not US work only but it is US worker only. So for instance, everything Funk did in Japan counts but Jumbo is DQ'd from the discussion because he is not born in the US. Savage and Tully are very close. I listed around 10 names and besides Hansen, the difference in quality of worker from #2 to #10 is very minimal. The five guys I specifically numbered were guys that I think if force to voted on this board, they would receive the most consideration. I personally would have Funk below Hansen. I also haven't seen most of the Portland stuff so I cant gauge Buddy. In my personal list, Tully and Savage might be back to back although I do think I would have Savage ahead as we have a ton of output from him in the 80's and a lot of quality stuff is out there. Tully does to but on the surface level it doesn't seem as much and I am not a huge fan overall of the Brainbuster run of 1989.
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545339 Why limit it to four? Honestly if you are trying to cover the "definitive" guys my first thought is to go with the guys who were active/heavily active for the vast majority of the decade and working at a very high level the whole time. Funk, Buddy and Bock are guys I love to the point where I would not argue against anyone who had anyone of them number one ever, but they both have big holes. If you were asking me to pick just four I'd say Flair, Lawler, Fujinami and Hansen, though I can see obvious arguments for Jumbo. Of course if it was me I'd just watch stuff from all of these guys
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545341 I wish Bock did more steady announcing in 87-89. What I've heard from him has been great.
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545347 Why limit it to four? Isn't this the Mount Rushmore concept? One question I want to ask for this: how important is it for the guy to have a full decade of work? Steamboat has a spotty 80s with periods of inactivity, and Bock retired mid-decade. Funk probably has fewer in-ring hours than many other guys too.
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545353 Hogan has to be on the list. Maybe he has his own category just because he's Hogan, which would then allow us to then talk about four other guys not named Hogan, but Hogan has to be on any definitive 80s list.
May 23, 201312 yr Author comment_5545356 Yea i only say four strictly for the Mt. Rushmore concept. Also because a top 25 matches of each guy equates to 100 and just makes it easier. The whole point would be for the debate as to who number four is. I'm sensing it's Hansen.
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545358 I don't understand the point of debating a top four that would include Hansen, largely because of his Japanese work, but would not include Japanese guys. I mean, any reasonable discussion of definitive stars from the '80s would have to include Riki Choshu, wouldn't it?
May 23, 201312 yr comment_5545363 I reckon an 80s Mount Rushmore of Hogan, Flair and Choshu + 1 would not look wrong at all. Trouble is, every combination of who that +1 might be looks out of place to me. Lawler's too regional. Funk, arguably, isn't ace-y enough. Other folk from Japan such as Hansen, Fujinami, or Jumbo might leave the Mount looking "too Japanese". I think that's as difficult, if not more, as jpchicago23's original question.
May 24, 201312 yr Author comment_5545387 It's definitely a struggle to find a concrete number four. Dylan, Will and those guys did enough to convince me of the first three I mentioned. Their arguments for each guy as well as watching the 80s sets where those guys shine leads me to believe they deserve the merit. The fourth cut I think wouldn't have the total package that the first three do though. Hogan would be the argument for drawing power, maybe Steamboat for in ring, Hansen as the world traveler and maybe a guy like Bock as an ace of a major territory. It's so varied that I'm also tempted to go top 10 and the 10 best matches of each guy for a wider comparison. What do you guys think?
May 24, 201312 yr comment_5545398 I would go with top 10 for 10 wrestlers spanning as much as they can.
May 24, 201312 yr Author comment_5545408 Ok well if we go top 10 who are the next 7? Hansen, Steamboat, Bock, Hogan, Rose, maybe Dibiase and Martel? I'm sure Savage gets consideration as well right?
May 24, 201312 yr comment_5545409 Flair, Lawler, Funk, Hansen, Savage, Tully, Bockwinkel, HOgan, Rose, Steamboat, Dibiase would be my pick for a top 11 actually to start with.
May 24, 201312 yr comment_5545410 Is it sad a did a little "YES" at DiBiase making your top 11? I should point out that Martel is Canadian and therefore out of the running.
May 24, 201312 yr comment_5545412 I wouldnt be too excited as I doubt I would have Dibiase as my #11 if forced to vote, I just added him because I think he gets a ton of debate around here and would be seen as "strong" contender at most of the other places. If Justin was doing a Chad vanity project, I would more than likely have someone like Backlund on the list.
May 24, 201312 yr Author comment_5545421 I really like Backlund as well and he would make my personal top 10 over Hogan. I think Dibiase deserves credit by I'm not sure id take him over Savage.
May 24, 201312 yr Author comment_5545422 Does anyone debate Flair,Funk,Hansen,Lawler,Bock, Steamboat and Rose as being locks in the top ten?
May 24, 201312 yr comment_5545423 As crazy as this will look: I debate Steamboat. I'd be interested to know if there's any consensus on him. Obviously, he has glorious peaks. In 82-3, in 87, in 89. And he was an all around tremendous worker, but ... there's something in the back of my mind that says he doesn't have the quantity of goods the other guys are shifting here. I would very happy if someone could come along with a massive list of great Steamer matches I haven't seen to disprove this hunch, because I love him, but I want to put it out there.
May 24, 201312 yr Author comment_5545424 It's not that crazy actually because I semi agree with that. I'm just trying to cement a few spots to narrow down the debatables.Id say guys like Hansen, Rose, and Bock are all locks definitely. So we'd debate a handful of guys for the last four spots. While I agree with your point Jerry, I can't see a top 10 without Steamer
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