He was at Wrestlemania once.

He's a great heel.

41 million

Consider this a running thread for the fight.

The strange thing about Money is that while he has a lot of potential HOF guys on his list of wins, just how many of them did he fight when they were at their peak... of close to their peak? I don't think he's quite Hector Camacho'd it of avoiding all sorts of folks. But it's... strange that the stars don't line up for him.

It's not strange. He only fights guys he knows he can beat. That's not to take anything away from his greatness. But he's always picked his fights carefully.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. If we go by your premise, he's a fucking joke and it does take away from his greatness. :/

I don't think he's a fucking joke. I think he's a supremely talented guy who is wired to care more about controlling every situation than about testing his talent to the utmost. The Pacquiao thing is the best example. I'm pretty sure that Floyd would've beaten Manny two years ago, when they were both near their primes and everyone wanted them to fight. But instead of saying damnit, I need to fight this guy no matter what, Floyd dicked around over minutiae until the moment had passed. I don't think he ducked Manny exactly. But he didn't push for the fight at all costs. Look, Floyd is an amazing talent who has nurtured his ability far better and longer than most. Guy is never out of shape, never flat come fight time. He has fought a lot of good opponents and continues to do so in his late 30s. It's an extremely impressive resume. But there is a caution in him that keeps him from saying I need to fight the absolute best guy out there, right now.

I don't think you're an all-time great boxer if you don't fight other HOF level fighters at or very near their peak. I was willing to cut Money slack that it's just the nature of the game, as other fighters have come along at times when there really aren't other great fighters in their class. But while avoiding saying he ducked people, in a round about way you're saying he ducked people:

 

"He only fights guys he knows he can beat."

 

"there is a caution in him that keeps him from saying I need to fight the absolute best guy out there, right now."

 

Sorry, that's ducking.

Besides Manny, who exactly did he duck? Even then, Floyd was right. Manny couldn't maintain his greatness as 1B. Floyd has maintained 1A.

 

Also, taking the Alvarez fight doesn't seem like a sure thing. The guy was younger and stronger and undefeated. He was also slower and inexperienced but was hyped as the next big thing. Floyd dismantled him. Props to Floyd for dismantling him even if the fight was boring as piss.

Floyd hasn't ducked anyone but Pacquiao. He fought everyone else that was put in his path.

 

He was the anti Roy Jones Jr. who ducked Dariusz Michalczewski for years until Dariusz lost a fight and then declared that he wasn't good enough to face him.

Kris, you seriously think Michalczewski is a bigger hole in RJJ's record than Pacquiao is in Floyd's? Sorry, but that's nuts. Manny and Floyd were the No. 1 and No. 2 guys in the sport and their fight would've been the biggest boxing had seen in at least a decade. I mean, if Sugar Ray Leonard had refused to fight Tommy Hearns, would we look at his career exactly the same way?

 

And Manny is not the only example. The boxing public wanted Floyd to fight Cotto back when Miguel was undefeated and wrecking top fighters with body shots. But Floyd waited until last year, long after Cotto had been diminished by terrible beatings from Margarito (probably assisted by loaded gloves) and Pacquiao.

 

He never sought a fight with Paul Williams when Paul was a massive/stylistically tricky welterweight. He never considered moving up to face Sergio Martinez at a catchweight.

 

Again, I'm not saying we should consider Floyd anything less than an all-time great. I'm not saying he's fought bad competition. But I think it's terribly revisionist to say he's always sought the best competition. He definitely has not.

 

As for Will's question about Canelo -- he was as good an opponent as Floyd could've picked at this moment. But I think Floyd knew full well that Canelo lacked the speed or sophistication to hang with him. So it was the perfect choice, one for which he'd get a lot of credit without much risk. That's Floyd in a nutshell and really, more power to him. He's great and smart about his business.

No Manny means more than Dariusz but at that time when it came to RJJ he was his Manny.

No Manny means more than Dariusz but at that time when it came to RJJ he was his Manny.

There were major fights along the way Floyd was accused of ducking. Antonio Margarito, Joel Casamayor and Shane Mosley when Mosley was still in his prime are the three major ones besides Manny.

 

Here's sort a of a brief discussion:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...eather-marquez/

Okay... so Money is a pussy who has ducked people.