Inoki as a character inside and outside the ring is awesome so no hate here. He's one of those guys who gets a pass from me as a worker due to his greatness as a character

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFhnspKZeN0

 

Anyone able to pull this off can't be hated.

Hate is too strong a word. I dont hate Inoki, but I do often find him to have been incredibly frustrating to watch. It's clear that he is beloved in Japan, however, that is nothing compared to how beloved he is in his own mind.

 

Still, his role in the history of Japanese wrestling is so important and at the end of the day, so very positive, he has more of my respect than any disdain.

Inoki is in North Korea at the moment, which the Diet aren't too happy about, but it reminded me of this story about Inoki wanting a meeting with the Taliban:

 

http://dawn.com/news/1048661/inoki-ready-t...ks-with-taliban

Don't ask me where did I read this because I can't remember (though I remember that it wasn't any of the traditional wrestling media) but a few years ago I read how Inoki used to go to North Korea several times a year. He doesn't necessarily go as a politician, but he's got a way in as the protege of Rikidozan. One of Rikidozan's sons in law is some sort of politician there.

Rikidozan's son-in-law was the Minister of Sports and had close ties to Kim Jong-il and his brother-in-law. He got the bum's rush from junior, though. Inoki usually visits on the pretense of watching a sports event or attending some other ceremony while claiming he wants to open Japanese and North Korean talks or some such BS.

I remember now why I knew that. I found out about Rikidozan's son-in-law as he got a lot of shit when five members of the national football (soccer) women's team were flagged for steroids two years ago. Apparently he was the one overseeing the entire operation. He got the job because he was a childhood friend of Kim Jong-il. I started digging information on this subject out of curiosity and ended up reading about Inoki.

Hate is too strong of a word for me to vote against Inoki at this point so I'm still undecided. Plus I have a big chin. But my favorite moment of his is definitely getting dumped on his head by Vader in that awesome German release suplex. Other stuff I've seen from him as been pretty boring though. There were so many other guys I'd rank ahead of him on NJPW 80's set. I have to watch more 70's stuff of him but when I think of him versus Baba, I'm a much bigger fan of Shohei.

I am probably the only person in the world who genuinely enjoys the Inoki vs The World proto-MMA matches. Add in Inoki/Andre, Inoki/Robinson, and Inoki/Brisco, plus the abuse he took to put over Vader, and I could never hate Inoki. I love 70s Inoki, I don't mind 80s Inoki, and I sort of tolerate 90s Inoki.

i agree on the worked MMA matches. I liked the Gerard Gordeua(sp?) match quite a bit actually. But Vader/Inoki from the '96 Dome show is ****+ and one of my top 20 matches ever from Japan. THAT is how you work sympathy for a babyface in a big match.

 

Overall, he's not in my top 100 favorite workers. BUT as said before he is such a Legend that it's fun to see him in big stuff. And he gave us NJPW, how could i "hate" a great man like that.

In the ring I can take him or leave him. I met him tho here at the L.A. Athletic club and he was real cooll with me

No. I don't like what he was doing to NJPW in the early 00s and he's hit or miss with me as a worker. But hate is too strong of a word for it.

 

I hate HHH and Randy Orton. I don't have that level of emotion toward Inoki.

I find most of his matches to be very boring, and of the matches of his that I do like, most of them are due to him being in the ring with guys that I consider as either above his level, or simply harder workers. There are very few of his matches that I would choose to go back and rewatch, as nothing an Inoki does ever strikes me as particularly noteworthy. I wouldn't say that I hate him in the ring; that's too strong. However, I would say that I am mostly indifferent. On a personal level he is a far more interesting person to explore, as he is in many ways a pure embodiment of pro-wres insanity, between the peace offerings, crucifixions, MMA/pro-wrestling debacles, name changes...the list goes on.

I gotta bring this thread back up again cause I've subscribed to the NJPW network and naturally, I've been watching a lot of Inoki matches for the past few weeks.

 

So people have said that Inoki is boring and they can't understand why he was such a big star. To me, this is utterly mystifying. More often than not, he knew exactly how to get his audience by the balls and build heat. He also understood how to keep his matches unpredictable, especially post his match series against martial artists.

 

Most importantly, Inoki was badass. Once in a while, he would look like the baddest dude on the planet by snapping someone's arm or knocking someone out with stomps and punches. He really knew how to punch someone in the face when it counted. In the 80s, there were times when he would look like a master grappler with crazy transitions.

 

Some matches:

- the 8/8/88 match against Fujinami is, for my money, the greatest 1 hour draw in history and honestly Inoki looks better than Fujinami there. The 85 match is great too but the 8888 match has amazing style

- the whole series vs. Choshu. I am mystified the 84 singles match didn't make it on the DVDVR set because it's crazy good, low end MOTDC.

- underrated matches in the 1970s against Strong Kobayashi and Kintaro Oki, two workers who as far as I can see did not have matches on that level against anyone else

- figured out how to get watchable, genuinely exciting matches out of guys such as Rusher Kimura or Tiger Jeet Singh

- the 1978 match against Roland Bock in Stuttgart, which is an uncooperative, hideous mess and somehow, great

 

Inoki sucking is a bit of a myth, I think. Not saying he was a superworker, all the time, but he could certainly turn it up and look world class especially in that 80s stuff where he would work as untouchable wrestling god getting taken down a notch by his tenacious opponents. He may be the ultimate spectacle worker in a way, given that he got more out of his proto MMA voodoo bullshit than anyone else did out of their own shock acts. I do regret leaving him off my GWE Top 100.

if people hate inoki for phoning in it as people say why did Hogan finhes so high in GWE polling he was mister boring unrealistic no technique he wws worse than inoki when he can ot nit puiing people over if you look t the stats inoki matches 3545 inoki own 83% kf his matches Hogan won 85 % of his na dif you consider Hogan worked close as to make no difference 2000 matches less than Inoki Hogan also has isuue with putting people over more than Inoki did and also based on wat iv seen alot of Inoki Mtahces on tape are good compdetive matches most of Hogan's are Boring Squashes so there is that to

I gotta bring this thread back up again cause I've subscribed to the NJPW network and naturally, I've been watching a lot of Inoki matches for the past few weeks.

 

So people have said that Inoki is boring and they can't understand why he was such a big star. To me, this is utterly mystifying. More often than not, he knew exactly how to get his audience by the balls and build heat. He also understood how to keep his matches unpredictable, especially post his match series against martial artists.

 

Most importantly, Inoki was badass. Once in a while, he would look like the baddest dude on the planet by snapping someone's arm or knocking someone out with stomps and punches. He really knew how to punch someone in the face when it counted. In the 80s, there were times when he would look like a master grappler with crazy transitions.

 

Some matches:

- the 8/8/88 match against Fujinami is, for my money, the greatest 1 hour draw in history and honestly Inoki looks better than Fujinami there. The 85 match is great too but the 8888 match has amazing style

- the whole series vs. Choshu. I am mystified the 84 singles match didn't make it on the DVDVR set because it's crazy good, low end MOTDC.

- underrated matches in the 1970s against Strong Kobayashi and Kintaro Oki, two workers who as far as I can see did not have matches on that level against anyone else

- figured out how to get watchable, genuinely exciting matches out of guys such as Rusher Kimura or Tiger Jeet Singh

- the 1978 match against Roland Bock in Stuttgart, which is an uncooperative, hideous mess and somehow, great

 

Inoki sucking is a bit of a myth, I think. Not saying he was a superworker, all the time, but he could certainly turn it up and look world class especially in that 80s stuff where he would work as untouchable wrestling god getting taken down a notch by his tenacious opponents. He may be the ultimate spectacle worker in a way, given that he got more out of his proto MMA voodoo bullshit than anyone else did out of their own shock acts. I do regret leaving him off my GWE Top 100.

Which Inoki/Choshu match was that? The short, heated one? If so, Phil and I dug it. Will, not so much.

i agree with Jetlag

yes Inoki's issues are many being a bad worker is not one of them issues

 

his unwating ways about leiting younger people go over him

his meddling in the booking in the early party of the 2000's yes Inokisim was when he was not head booker Choshu and Chono were at that time

 

I gotta bring this thread back up again cause I've subscribed to the NJPW network and naturally, I've been watching a lot of Inoki matches for the past few weeks.

 

So people have said that Inoki is boring and they can't understand why he was such a big star. To me, this is utterly mystifying. More often than not, he knew exactly how to get his audience by the balls and build heat. He also understood how to keep his matches unpredictable, especially post his match series against martial artists.

 

Most importantly, Inoki was badass. Once in a while, he would look like the baddest dude on the planet by snapping someone's arm or knocking someone out with stomps and punches. He really knew how to punch someone in the face when it counted. In the 80s, there were times when he would look like a master grappler with crazy transitions.

 

Some matches:

- the 8/8/88 match against Fujinami is, for my money, the greatest 1 hour draw in history and honestly Inoki looks better than Fujinami there. The 85 match is great too but the 8888 match has amazing style

- the whole series vs. Choshu. I am mystified the 84 singles match didn't make it on the DVDVR set because it's crazy good, low end MOTDC.

- underrated matches in the 1970s against Strong Kobayashi and Kintaro Oki, two workers who as far as I can see did not have matches on that level against anyone else

- figured out how to get watchable, genuinely exciting matches out of guys such as Rusher Kimura or Tiger Jeet Singh

- the 1978 match against Roland Bock in Stuttgart, which is an uncooperative, hideous mess and somehow, great

 

Inoki sucking is a bit of a myth, I think. Not saying he was a superworker, all the time, but he could certainly turn it up and look world class especially in that 80s stuff where he would work as untouchable wrestling god getting taken down a notch by his tenacious opponents. He may be the ultimate spectacle worker in a way, given that he got more out of his proto MMA voodoo bullshit than anyone else did out of their own shock acts. I do regret leaving him off my GWE Top 100.

Which Inoki/Choshu match was that? The short, heated one? If so, Phil and I dug it. Will, not so much.

Most likely their 8/2 match. I only discovered it because it was so highly rated at Cagematch of all places.

Huh, read my review from 10 years ago, and apparently, I thought they missed the boat by working a largely mat-based match at that point in the feud.

 

But I just watched it for the first time since then and have to say, I blew it. I did not see a MOTDC because they lost momentum at times in the back half. But it was an excellent match with so many cool little moments of struggle. So thanks to Jetlag for steering me back to it.

 

In general, the long Inoki singles matches are my biggest regrets from that particular DVDVR process. The Fujinami broadway should certainly have been on there.

The fact that the Robinson match was a mess is precisely why I think it's so great. It's not quite as good as Robinson/Baba but there's no shame in that--that's a MOTD contender. There's no Inoki match of that era where it looks so likely that he's going to lose and therefore none quite so dramatic. Even if it's Billy going off on his own, that just adds to the match's mystique for me. I liked the Brisco match when I saw it too, but almost entirely because I thought it was an otherworldly performance from Jack while Inoki was sort of along for the ride.

 

This.

 

Most of us knew the result before we even watched the match.

I think it would have been much more dramatic if we didn't know the result going in.

 

The 2nd fall coming so late in the match set the stage for a crazy sprint to the finish that the live crowd certainly enjoyed.

 

Would I have preferred them having 5 minutes left for the last fall? Absolutely.

But the match looked good to me.

 

Much less stooging from Billy, compared to his Baba 3 fall match

It looked more like a legit contest, especially for 1975 standards.

 

Dan Ginnetty

I didn't think Robinson was stooging or going into business for himself. It felt to me like he was lying back and trying to bait Inoki into making a mistake because he was up a fall and had the luxury of turtling. The way the match was worked, I figured Robinson would get the win if it went to a time-limit draw because he was up 1-0. In that case, Inoki evening things up with 30 seconds remaining was the perfect finish.

I agree 100% with your assessment of Billy's game plan.

 

I tried to say Billy's selling against Baba in the 1976 3 fall match was more stooge-like against Baba's questionable offense.

 

Billy's selling against Inoki was top notch, IMO

 

 

Dan

Fuck Inoki.

Okay, now it's on. I want to see shodate and Parv argue to no end.

Rumour is they're actually one and the same 😉