Discuss here.

I really need to see some more of his AWA stuff, and his early WWF stuff. Because based on his later WWF and WCW stuff he probably doesn't make the cut but I can see a wrestler who with a better body of work could make the cut.

Portland too. Watch his matches with Buddy Rose. He also did some very good work in Japan. I don't think Martel would've made my top 100 five years ago. Now, he's a mortal lock. Everything he did looked good.

I'll have more things to say as we go along with this, but I find Martel's heel work in WWF very frustrating. I think he was handcuffed, be it by the agents or the style or what not, and I do think a lot of his babyface work was still pretty good there. To me, the heel run is going to hurt him and I'll probably have to revisit it and see what I can find.

Rick Martel's babyface work in the WWF (87-88) is really underrated in my book. The Islanders feud is incredible. I really believe Martel/Islanders (the two singles matches are really good before Tito gets involved) is one of the best feuds of the Hulkamania era. I am pretty down on Demolition overall and thought matches were decent. I liked the Martel/Tito feud, but it could have been so much more. Tito is such a great blood feud worker that this feud could have been an all-time great one if it was booked too have more matches and a proper blowoff.

Here is a ton of Martel in WWF (87-90)

Choice cuts:

Choice Cuts from Strike Force:

AWA World Tag Team Champions High Flyers vs Rick Martel & Tito Santana - 8/29/82 St. Paul

Rick Martel vs Tama - 7/87 MSG

Strike Force vs The Islanders - 9/87 MSG

Strike Force vs The Islanders - 10/87 MSG 2 Out of 3 Falls

WWF World Tag Champs Strike Force vs The Hart Foundation - 11/87 MSG

Survivor Series '87

Rick Martel & Fabulous Rougeaus w/Jimmy Hart & Slick vs Tito Santana & Rockers - Summerslam 89

Rick Martel w/Slick vs Bret Hart - Primetime 10/89

Rick Martel w/Slick vs. Tito Santana - SNME 11/89

Rick Martel vs Tito Santana - Main Event 11/90

Rick Martel vs Haku - 8/87 MSG

WWF World Tag Champs Strike Force vs The Islanders - Philly 12/87

There is a ton of AWA stuff that should help you, Bill.

 

There are bouts vs. Bockwinkel that range from 1978-85 available. There are two title defenses against King Tonga (Meng) from Montreal and New Jersey worth looking at. There's the brawl at Comiskey Park vs. Hansen, 4 matches against Jumbo between May 84 and Sept 85 (Sept 85 is my personal favourite), Martel vs. Chosu, matches against all three Freebirds, Jim Garvin, Saito, Robinson, Lawler, Kamala, Zbyzsko, A surprisingly good series against Boris Zurkov in Winnipeg, face vs. face bouts against Brunzell and Bravo, tons of tags and 6--man tags...it's a long list.

 

The AWA work is there, and it's good stuff.

His AWA vs. NWA title match with Flair from All Japan in 1983 is really great. Need to see more of Martel after seeing that.

Another great what-if is what would have happened had he not gotten hurt during his WCW run. He was really working hard and putting on some good matches and I would have liked to see what kind of bookend he could have put on his career.

 

Babyface Martel is one of the best baby faces ever in my opinion. I haven't seen any of the Portland stuff but I loved a lot of his AWA stuff. He's gonna be considered.

His AWA vs. NWA title match with Flair from All Japan in 1983 is really great. Need to see more of Martel after seeing that.

Isn't that '85? And yeah, great match.

 

Like Martel a great deal in the AWA set. His stock went way up with me.

Agreed on the point about his WCW run being cut off. I often wondered how the injury affected how he was going to be booked in the future.

He didn't make my list in the Smarkschoice poll. He is a lock for this round. I just need to watch some Montreal footage. I couldn't give a shit about his Model run.

The quality of his WCW run in 1998 should be discussed, as should his AWF matches with Tito Santana. How did he adapt to getting older?

I need to see the few matches we have from him between those runs, when he's teaming with and/or feuding with Callis in Canada. Some of that is online:

 

 

The quality of his WCW run in 1998 should be discussed, as should his AWF matches with Tito Santana. How did he adapt to getting older?

 

Curious - which Evolution-era Flair matches would you compare favorably to Martel v. Tito in the AWF?

I wouldn't. I haven't even seen Martel-Tito in the AWF in order to make the comparison. Just encouraging consistency.

That Martel/Lawler match is pretty sweet. Martel did a good job playing the subtle heel. Definitely going to watch more Martel before it's all said and done. I'm curious who was better in the 80s, Hennig or Martel?

As a whole, I go with Martel there, but a big part of that is Martel had already spent many years working on his game by that point and was a more complete wrestler for more of the decade. Hennig debuting a year or so into the 80's meant his development didn't really begin to progress until the decade was half over.

Martel's 1998 run was pretty great while it lasted. Not blow away great but he still had something in the tank befor ethe injury. Doesn't hurt his run at all. He also isn't a Top Ten guy.

Martel is a guy who I group in the Santana, Bret Hart, and Steamboat range. I loved his Bock series of matches. I did find the one from the 70's from Hawaii kind of just ok. Actually his AWA run was boss. His matches with Rose were tremendous. I liked his tag matches with Piper and Tito. I think he'll be in my top 1/2.

I enjoyed his match against Flair more than I ever have before, though it was still a bit of a chore. The Ricky Martel love continues!

If I were looking to make criticisms of Martel, I'd point out that he really lost a ton as a heel and for all the good/really great matches I've seen him in, I can't recall a single really good brawl. The closest is probably the Zhukov cage match, but even that isn't quite what I mean.

 

The flipside of that is you can argue it made no sense to turn a guy who looked like that heel, and I'm not sure you have to have a great brawl under your belt to be an upper half guy as long as your resume is dense in other ways.

 

From 80-86 I don't think there were too many guys in the world better than Martel, and that was a period with a lot of all time great level guys in their prime. Offhand I think you could argue him as high as five in English speaking North America after Buddy Rose, Flair, Lawler and Bockwinkel.

If I were looking to make criticisms of Martel, I'd point out that he really lost a ton as a heel and for all the good/really great matches I've seen him in, I can't recall a single really good brawl. The closest is probably the Zhukov cage match, but even that isn't quite what I mean.

 

 

I'll throw Martel vs. Hansen at Super Clash I out here as an example, although it was criminally short and you might be leaving it out because of that.

Offhand I think you could argue him as high as five in English speaking North America after Buddy Rose, Flair, Lawler and Bockwinkel.

 

Martel isn't English Speaking.

 

And yeah, he was great. The more I watch him, the more I think of him. His comeback in 98 was pretty terrific as he looked like one of the best guys in WCW almost immediately, and it took those sloppy-ass Harlem Heat to cut his career short. Not that he would have hang on for too long though, he was making money in real-estate for a decade already.

I said this recently in the big summary post:

 

Rick Martel - phenomenal babyface, think he's been great in 80-81 WWF, and a lot of good performances in the AWA. One of the very best comebacks in the business. Great sense of fire and energy in everything he does. Will potentially finish above Ricky Steamboat. The embodiment of everything I think a babyface should be. Jack Brisco will do well to finish above Martel -- even if Brisco fathered the style that Martel mastered. He was pretty sexy too.

Every time I see Martel crop up in whatever I'm watching, he makes me think he's one of the best babyfaces ever to step into the ring. He is almost the perfect embodiment of what I'd look for in a babyface.

 

Offhand I think you could argue him as high as five in English speaking North America after Buddy Rose, Flair, Lawler and Bockwinkel.

 

Martel isn't English Speaking.

 

And yeah, he was great. The more I watch him, the more I think of him. His comeback in 98 was pretty terrific as he looked like one of the best guys in WCW almost immediately, and it took those sloppy-ass Harlem Heat to cut his career short. Not that he would have hang on for too long though, he was making money in real-estate for a decade already.

 

 

To be fair it was Perry Saturn throwing him over the top rope that wrecked his knee and ended his career.