Discuss here.

Oh, hell no. If Hulk Hogan doesn't belong on a list like this that's based on artistic merit, Dump doesn't belong within a million miles of one.

Oh, hell no. If Hulk Hogan doesn't belong on a list like this that's based on artistic merit, Dump doesn't belong within a million miles of one.

 

Who says Hulk Hogan doesn't belong?

 

His selling and awesome mid 80's sprint title matches are a good shot he makes my lower bit of the list.

The discussion in the Hogan thread centered around how popular but artistically questionable didn't merit a spot on the list. But if people want to put Hogan on theirs, that's their prerogative. My point is that Dump makes Hogan look like Kobashi in his prime.

Oh, boy.

I read an Observer from 1989 a while back that argued that Dusty Rhodes looked like Dump Matsumoto "only without the wrestling talent". Man, Dave really had it in for Dusty back then.

Dump Matsumoto is not really comparable to Hogan in my opinion. She wasn't nearly as formulaic or propped up by booking. Hogan generated heat by being pushed (most of the time) while Dump generated heat by doing awful things. I think a better comparison is Abdullah the Butcher, Mr. Pogo or The Sheik. If you like the madman types, you'll like Dump. I'd have her above all three of them myself.

Have you seen the late 70s Abby and Sheik vs. Funks matches, Charles? Those performances by The Sheik in particular really turned me around on him. More when his nominee thread goes up. There are several young Sheik matches in that Chicago footage, and more buried in episodes of Big Time Wrestling that I might be motivated to seek out after Race / Dory projects.

Dump in her early days and when she slimmed up before retirement showed some wrestling ability. I wouldn't necessarily mistake the role she played for lack of ability. I hope people start watching the primer Loss provided, because I know for me the Joshi heel acts like Monster Rippa, Devil Masami, the Black Pair and Moolah's girls have been highly repetitive when I've gone back and watched them and I'd like to see other people's takes on Dump & Co and the heel ref Abe.

I wasn't trying to directly compare Hogan and Dump as workers, just making a point about artistic merit. And I was actually going to make the Sheik/Abby comparison. Like them, all she had going for her was the blood circus/freak show aspect.

Sheik and Abby were masters at generating heat from the tools at their disposal and as such are two of the better heels I've ever seen. So if Dump is anything like as smart as either of them, she has a shot at making my top 100.

Considering the setting, I'd put Dump above Sheik and Abby. I never saw Sheik or Abby cause the chaos that Dump did in her heyday.

I would definitely consider Dump for a list like this based on artistic merit. Some of the best in ring story telling takes place in out of control bloody brawls. I don't know if I'll end up voting for Dump but I'm looking forward to rewatching her for the first time in forever. And cutting your opponents hair to counter a side headlock is just brilliant.

5 years later and Dump is probably making my list this time!

Her in ring charisma and presence is a force of nature. Every Dump match is a spectacle and I love them!

When she isn't just fucking around with a story driven beat people with weapons, she is an all time great brawler with some of the greatest matches ever against Chigusa. Plus she can really go in a normal match too. Her tag matches with Bull are out of this world too.

I have yet to see anything post comeback, so we'll see if that hurts or helps her.

I have Dump written in stone in my top 5 and penciled in at #2 behind only Terry Funk. I'll probably go back and forth between Dump & Hokuto for #2 but thinking about what I really love in wrestling the most, its pretty much Dump Matsumoto. The over the top spectacle and violence appeals to me far more than polished technique at this point and no one does over the top spectacle and violence better than Dump Matsumoto. Longevity hurts her for sure. I definitely won't argue her case on the basis of longevity. Its peak only.  I've seen a little bit of her comeback work and its not good. But from 84-87 she is such an amazing presence that I think she transcends wrestling in a way I haven't seen from anyone else.  When I watch prime Dump Matsumoto, I don't think of her in comparison to Bull Nakano or Aja Kong or Vader or whichever large "bully" heel you can think. To me Dump belongs in the category with Michael Myers from Halloween, Jason from Friday the 13th. She's one of the great horror characters in film & television history. 

When you see "Dump Matsumoto" your brain instantly goes to the Chigusa Nagayo matches. With good reason. Those matches have been put over for 35 years. For anyone who likes those matches or just wants to see an example of completely chaotic spectacle driven wrestling with incredible character work, I can't recommend the following two matches enough:

Dump Matsumoto vs Yukari Ohmori AJW - 3/20/86

Dump Matsumoto vs Itsuki Yamazaki AJW - 8/21/86

I consider these all time great must see matches. 

I'll have more to say about Dump as the project continues. But she was just unbelievable in her prime. 

On 4/9/2021 at 7:49 PM, elliott said:

When I watch prime Dump Matsumoto, I don't think of her in comparison to Bull Nakano or Aja Kong or Vader or whichever large "bully" heel you can think. To me Dump belongs in the category with Michael Myers from Halloween, Jason from Friday the 13th. She's one of the great horror characters in film & television history.

I have similar thoughts on this. To me Dump Matsumoto isn't another wrestling heel and she's not a TV show character either. She's more something out of folklore, a mythological monster who just hates girls being happy and upsetting them is literally her only motivation for existing. AJW doesn't treat her like she's an official member of the roster; arenas full of schoolgirls enjoying seeing their heroes wrestle just somehow summons her to come and ruin their day. She's like an evil Tom Bombadil spirit creature.

I did not expect my lifelong fandom of wrestling and JRRT to be juxtaposed on this forum with a metaphor of Matsumoto as an evil Tom Bombadil.

Gold star awarded to Kadaveri, well done.

Same. That was brilliant!

But we're Gokuaku Domei. Our songs are better, and we're gonna get her.

 

That was cool! Thank you! Is that a Bellevue, WA police badge??? WTF?

I'm a complete joshi novice, but Dump has been the perfect entry point into 80s AJW. I love when wrestling feels chaotic and out of control, giving you that adrenaline rush from not knowing what is going to come next. Dump is just brilliant at that.

12 hours ago, elliott said:

That was cool! Thank you! Is that a Bellevue, WA police badge??? WTF?

Check out Bull and Dump cruising around NYC.

 

Watch Party just ended. #2 feels good. 

I've been watching wrestling since 1992, started exploring the indies and puro/lucha in 2001, yet somehow today was the first time I'd seen Dump wrestle, and I'm immediately full of regret for not getting there earlier. Absolute chaos, she came across as the most diabolical human in wrestling. Her stabbing Yukari Omori was more of a "What the fuck!" moment than most deathmatches I've seen. Loved her team with Nakano, and loved the fact that she wasn't just smoke and mirrors. When she got down to business, she was clearly capable of having very good matches. Stabbing someone in the leg with a pair of scissors to break a figure four is pure pro wrestling.

Not to disparage Dump, who is probably the most effective crazy sadistic heel ever, but I dare anyone who's giving her consideration based on a handful of 80s matches to watch some of her post comeback work too. She had 78 matches in 2003 AJW alone.