3 hours ago, Boss Rock said:

That trios match looks great.

It was an awesome bit of chaos. The ROH vs. CZW feud hit some high peaks. The Cage of Death blowoff is also worth watching if you've never seen it, though it's much more heavily booked than the six-man and lacking Super Dragon. 

I'll watch more of his post-peak TNA stuff (let's say 2009-14, idk), to have a recent image of what he did in such a bad context. His peak years are among the best ever, and his WWE run was pretty cool too. I think he could be in my top 25.

1 hour ago, Childs said:

It was an awesome bit of chaos. The ROH vs. CZW feud hit some high peaks. The Cage of Death blowoff is also worth watching if you've never seen it, though it's much more heavily booked than the six-man and lacking Super Dragon. 

I love the Cage of Death match, but having Super Dragon would've definitely been a plus.

You guys say that, but as much as I love Super Dragon, Nate Webb as his replacement wrestling the match of his fucking life is a good end result. Always felt bad Nate never got more RoH bookings after his unreal bumping display in that.

Both matches are great, the 6 man is the best match I've ever seen live.

I loved Nate in that match. First time I had ever heard of him and when it was over I thought he was so cool.

Nate Webb was crazy in that match, yeah. Lunatic bump after lunatic bump. I remember watching it the first time not really knowing much about the CZW guys and thinking I should watch every Nate Webb match ever just out of gratitude for him dying several deaths for our sadistic viewing pleasure. I could still probably count on the one hand the number of Nate Webb matches I've seen to this day, but the sentiment was real in the moment. 

In the few months since I've been watching matches critically, I've gained a lot of appreciation for Joe. I knew he was good, but I hadn't really seen much ROH or TNA work. He's got a chance to be really high on my list and one of my top ranked American workers.

I think Joe's a good exercise in how much you count prime performances against overall. Joe in RoH, those few golden years in the mid-2000's were easily some of the best in the world, not just in the US. The guy had it all in my book and then some, having good to great matches against virtually anyone through the door, at times he'd just get paired with random lads out of the blue and still knock it out of the park.

He joins TNA and the hype is still going: he's got a undefeated streak, he's getting incredibly over with the crowds....then things start to slowly unravel. His Japan return in 2007 is a failure, being laughed out of the building after trying to get a presence in NOAH, TNA slowly shove him down the card and his demotivation becomes VERY clear after a while. Add that up alongside a lot of injuries and the dude drops off a cliff. He's still very good when he's on the game (I think he got a actually pretty solid bout out of Nash once?) but he falls into a black hole by the time 2012 or so hits. His WWE run is....mixed, but I think they made the best out of the guy given his injury issues really never stopped when he got there: if anything, they probably got worse with the quantity of matches. I'd still put him on a hypothetical top 100, but at the same time it's quite hard to place him proper as this thread definitely makes clear.

I will say that people are somewhat sleeping on his ZERO-ONE stuff through, for a one year rookie he makes sure that doesn't look like the case

 

 

Joe would've likely made my list regardless, but I honestly think his AEW run helps his case quite a bit. No, he's not 2005 Joe but he seems much more energized compared to his largely lackluster WWE run.

I think there's enough great stuff across all his runs to find each of them adding to his case rather than detracting from it. Maybe not the NOAH criticism that pops up here from time to time but consider that a) it was only 2 matches while still signed to TNA, and b) it's against Misawa in a main event singles match in 2007. I think there were bigger issues than Joe being laughed at (even though it clearly doesn't happen much at all).

On 6/22/2025 at 12:40 PM, Boss Rock said:

Joe would've likely made my list regardless, but I honestly think his AEW run helps his case quite a bit. No, he's not 2005 Joe but he seems much more energized compared to his largely lackluster WWE run.

I thought the exact opposite. I think he's been terrible in AEW, mainly as his body has failed him and he lacks any of the explosiveness that made his act so exciting in his prime. Putting the belt on him was a horrible decision that reflected in the poor ratings and declining interest at the time.

In contrast, having recently revisited his early NXT stuff, he looks great. He was clearly more motivated and in shape knowing it was likely his only chance to impress Vince/Hunter, and the Balor matches are actually well-worked breaths of fresh air to revisit. 10 years really does fly by. 

As an aside, I am still furious that Vince stopped their Dallas match to clean the blood off Joe's face. That was an all time gusher and made Joe look like an absolute killer. Instantly woke up the crowd who were drained from Nakamura/Zayn and made the match.

It's a small sample size, but Joe vs Darby might be the best thing AEW ever did.