Discuss here.

Have pretty much only seen his stuff this year. While he's had some great moments, his big match style is very formulaic. Not even one of the top 5 workers in his company this year.

Loved him as a "young lion" in 09', he had great showings in the NOAH feud. Loved him in 2012 and last year. But It's way too soon for me to consider him for a list like this one.

Hasn't even had three years yet as a non young boy. Obviously well on his way to a great career, with some amazing stuff under his belt already. Not often the first two "real" years of a career feature a legendary series of matches at the top of the best working promotion in the world. If he stays healthy, it's sort of scary how good he can be when he gets to his prime, which might still be a decade or so away.

If he has a 2015 that rivals his last three years, I will have zero problem voting for him. Probably hard to go top 30 or anything like that but he could be on the list no bother.

I think Okada is more a candidate for the 2026 list, than the 2016 list.

I think Okada is more a candidate for the 2026 list, than the 2016 list.

 

I think this is a crazy statement. Why does someone have to have a career that long to be included? Rick Rude, in example, is 100% most definitely on my list & he wasn't active for too many years. If we chopped the last ten years of Ric Flair's career off, for another example, would anyone think less of him?

 

Okada will be on the bottom of my list. He's one of the reasons NJPW felt rejuvenated to me & I like his "big match feel" for the main events he's in. Of course, I like Tanahashi too & I know there's not a lot of love around here for him either.

 

Both will probably be on the bottom of my list. Nakamura too. I'm OK with this. We all like different things in our rasslin' but one thing I don't look for is to make sure their tenure was at least X amount of years, ya know? Three years of high level stuff is a long time in this industry to me. I mean, it's not twenty of course but it doesn't make the matches he had worse because he's only done them for three years instead of five or seven, that just makes his number on my list lower than those that have done it for five or seven. I think I'm talking in circles now... but yeah, he's on my list. I think he's done enough already to be on there. We have people making cases for Trish Stratus, for Christ's sake.

Yeah Okada has more than enough years as a pimped worked to be voted for in case someone is insanely high on his work.

I could see him sneaking into the 90-100 somewhere on my list. I am not sure it will happen, but it COULD. I REALLY like his matches with Nakamura in the G-1 and actually think he would benefit from working with people other than Tanahashi in the top spot more often. I find much of what he does with Tanahashi somewhat repetitive (fun, big match style, but repetitive) where I think he thrives when faced with different challenges that provide him different ways of nuancing his character via in ring work.

Someone making my list and I don't think we've seen the very best of him yet. For four years now, he's been working at an elite-level that I just can't ignore. Have him slotted in the 80's right now.

I don't think the point Grimmas was making was that Okada hasn't had enough to rate, but rather that we don't have enough perspective to reflect on it yet. This was one of the primary arguments people threw out against voting for people like Joe and Bryan back in 06 so it's hardly a new take. I have mixed feelings about it, but I do admit that I find it tougher to rate guys when I feel like they are still in the midst of their prime, and it feels really weird to consider guys who aren't even 30 years old (not saying I haven't or wouldn't, but it is tricky for me).

I don't think the point Grimmas was making was that Okada hasn't had enough to rate, but rather that we don't have enough perspective to reflect on it yet. This was one of the primary arguments people threw out against voting for people like Joe and Bryan back in 06 so it's hardly a new take. I have mixed feelings about it, but I do admit that I find it tougher to rate guys when I feel like they are still in the midst of their prime, and it feels really weird to consider guys who aren't even 30 years old (not saying I haven't or wouldn't, but it is tricky for me).

Was more referring to Alan's point, but I think Grammas' post is valid.

Originally someone I could sit on until next time because of the length of his career, Okada is now a lock for my list. Just working from his NJ reentry in '12 until today, that is 4+ years filled with a metric ton of matches I rate very highly. As much as I appreciate the perspective that is afforded by looking back at people who are either retired or well past their glory years, at the end of the day Okada very likely has more great matches on tape, already, than a number names I'll rank much higher. That's not their fault and simply a function of availability, but I'm not about to penalize him for it. Rise of the moderns!

Let me get the negatives out of the way first because even as a huge fan, I can't deny that Okada has his flaws. His mat and submission game is bad. His transitions are slow and his submissions are weak. If I can call out Cena for having the worst STF ever, I have to call out Okada for having ineffective-looking submissions. That being said, he's thankfully gone back to the Rainmaker as his primary finish with the Money Clip as a secondary. His strikes also tend to be on the soft side. It's interesting, because during his initial push from 2012 to 2013, his strikes actually looked pretty solid. Although his striking game has declined over the years, it's almost a meta character aspect. Since his gimmick is that of being the flashy, hotshot ace who relies on his athleticism and gas tank, he doesn't need to be a great striker. But when challenged by a physically more powerful opponent, he tends to put a bit more "oomph" in his strikes. His leg selling is also historically spotty (although he's hardly the only offender). And when it comes to 30 minute plus matches, his urgency can be left wanting. He always delivers in the second half and finishing stretches of a match, but the first 10 minutes or so are always slow and padded. I get that his character is supposed to be confident and collected and his kayfabe strategy is to dictate the pace. But sometimes I wish he would just step on the gas pedal.

Now that I've covered the holes in his game, it's time to mention the positives which I think he really has a lot of. As a big match worker, he's one of the most consistent in the world over the last few years. His return from excursion in 2012 has great matches against Tanahashi, Naito, Nakamura, and Anderson. From 2013-onwards he's had a pretty comfortable claim of at least top 10 in the world while being the arguable best in 2017. He has an uncanny way of adding drama to his matches and making the ending seem in doubt when his win is already a foregone conclusion. I'll never forget seeing a match with him and SANADA during the 2017 G1 already knowing that he won but still on the edge of my seat when he was locked in the skull end. He's perhaps better than anyone at selling peril and that he's in danger of losing. He especially thrives against physically larger and more powerful opponents as he sells their biggest shots like he's been ko'd on his feet. And even against opponents who aren't that big, his match formula allows them to show off their best offense even if they're limited in other regards. His 2018 G1 run is probably the best example of this as he gave nearly everyone their best match (and it was a rather pitiful field). His 2020 was a bit rocky due to ostensibly having a bad back, but he still had the highest peaks on anyone that year.

As a character-worker, I think he's an underrated babyface as evidenced by his wars with Suzuki as well as some of the Tanahashi matches. However, it's obvious he thrives more as the cocky ace or disrespectful youngster to the beloved veterans. His matches against Kojima, Nagata, and Makabe are probably the best example of these, especially the miraculously fantastic Dominion 2013 match against Makabe. It's another formula that works for him because he gets to sell their best and flashiest shots like death. And that's to say nothing of the 2017 Shibata match. Shibata's performance may have been the greatest any wrestler has ever had, but there's no way he has that kind of match against anyone but Okada. And while I mentioned his iffy limb selling at times, he's overall a really good seller and great at making his opponents' moves look good.

While his best matches are obviously against BITW-level wrestlers, he also has quite a few notable carry jobs. He's gotten several solid to downright good matches out of Bad Luck Fale. Put on really good matches with Michael Elgin, even after the latter was exposed as a one-trick pony. The 2015 match with Tenryu is also pretty miraculous considering Tenryu had no business being in the ring at that point.

Unless he completely breaks down or retires, I think Okada has a pretty comfortable spot in the top 50. But I'm not quite sure he breaches the top 30 yet.

I'm on the group of people that don't like him going so long when, as stated by Boss Rock, at the very least the first third of his matches are uninteresting (there's exceptions of course, like the ZBJ IWGP title match or the Shibata classic) and I become even more frustrated by them when Okada never fails to deliver in a finishing stretch. He might the best ever at building drama in a finishing sequence. So him in tighter matches with high stakes would probably have me in awe, instead of fast forwarding or being bored for 10-15 minutes in his long "epics". Doesn't help that I had completely soured on the New Japan main event style by the time the last vote happened and it hasn't gotten any better for my tastes.

Having said that, this scrutiny comes from me putting him against the elite of the elite, n°1 candidates. And there's a ton of shit Okada excels at and he has a fuck ton of great performances to his resume so he's still gonna be in a good position in my ballot. We'll see how he does in the next 5 years. 

 

I hope this becomes one of the busiest threads this time around. I find Okada's case fascinating and he has to be one of the favorites to jump the highest in this new version of GWE. Really looking forward to debate and read people's opinion on him being possibly a n°1 candidate in the coming years.

His infamous long reign was the greatest since Kobashi in NOAH. Fascinating big match worker. Gotta dig up the years I haven't seen.

In theory, Okada should probably be in or entering his prime by the time the next GWE comes around and it's probably going to be up to Gedo's booking where he ends up.

Obviously this isn't the be all end all but no one except Kenta Kobashi has more matches that I rated 5*. And that's after me spending hours trying to cut that number down to seperate the best from the rest. So calling him a "Big Match Worker" is perfectly accurate for him. It's noticeable when he has a match most would deem a "good" match. It's a running joke on certain areas on social media that any time Okada has a less than stellar match, he gets called washed by a small minority. That's the level Okada has set. Not many people can lay out a great match like Okada can and he's had a lot of people's best match (Kenny Omega, Shibata, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Satoshi Kojima, Kota Ibushi, etc). 

His criticisms would be that he can be way to reliant on a certain formula - maximising his opponents strengths, selling for the opponent before making a comeback. And while Okada has shown that he can switch it up for more quicker paced matches (there was one ZSJ match that comes to mind) or matches built around him not taking the opponent seriously, but you usually get a similar layout for any big match that he may have. 

Another criticism for some is his offence. Similarly to Tanahashi, his strikes and other big offence can lack the visual impact that Shibata kicking someone in the chest would BUT the emphasis is on what does it mean within the match. So I can forgive a few lazy back elbows because his dropkick is an instant game changer and one of the more important moves in Japanese wrestling. The fact that Okada can get a lot out of not many big moves is a plus for me. And his selling is his strengths anyway so it's smart to have that be the focus of the match. I'm sure you can pick apart him selling a leg poorly in certain matches but in the grand scheme of the match, his selling is usually excellent. 

Okada had a signature title reign with Good-GOAT title matches with people ranging from Kenny Omega to Naomichi Marufuji to Bad Luck Fale. You could make a case for him on this title reign alone. You add the Tanahashi feud, the Jay White feud and many other great matches in between, you have an insane amount of quality matches to sink your teeth into. 

He might be in my top 10 when it comes down to it. 

46 minutes ago, Makai Club #1 said:

It's a running joke on certain areas on social media that any time Okada has a less than stellar match, he gets called washed by a small minority.

I once saw someone say this has replaced the annual "Is Tanahashi seriously injured?" cliche.

1 minute ago, Boss Rock said:

I once saw someone say this has replaced the annual "Is Tanahashi seriously injured?" cliche.

Yep. Same thing. New Japan put out a story that Okada's injured and of course people ate that up. 

He's one half of more than a few of the greatest matches I've ever seen.  All-time five star classics against Tanahashi, Omega, Naito and Shibata.  Top 30 feels like the floor for him.

To me, Okada is a Japanese Randy Orton. He bores me to tears. His matches are way too long. A lot of the early mat work to drag out the New Japan epic main event style match is rendered worthless. And I absolutely loathe the Rainmaker as a finisher for him. His build is too lanky for me to believe it to be as devastating as a Stan Hansen lariat. And let’s not forget baggy pants era Okada. Not a good look. But I recognize this is a me problem.
 

I have no doubt he will do much better on the 2026 list than he did in 2016, especially amongst most hardcore New Japan fans and Dave Meltzer subscribers. 

It's going to be fascinating to see where Okada can finish and he might turn into the most divisive wrestler from the 2010s to discuss.  A year or two ago he might have felt on course to be a top 10 guy, but with the winds of change blowing and NJPW support in the West waning, Okada might add less to his case as love for his style of match dries up and retrospectively fans might be more critical of his previous work.

Opportunity always springs to mind with Okada because for the opportunities he's been given, he should be making a top 10 case for GWE.  He's been booked as the undisputed ace of his company, the most successful and popular company in Japan in the 2010s, and therefore he's been in more main events and title matches than anyone else in the last 10 years for NJPW.  And given the house style, his booking leads him to being involved in the more 'heralded' matches than anyone else where he's almost always going to have a couple of matches up for MOTY recognition that can cover up his output for the rest of the year.  He's had every opportunity since 2012 to prove he's one of the greatest wrestlers ever, and yet, I don't even feel like he was a top 5 performer for his own company for those golden years; I find him wildly inconsistent and frustrating so when I compare him to every other wrestler in history, he's going to drop further and further down a GWE list.  

Random match theory is another thing that hurts Okada if you're a proponent of the theory.  Okada's case of being a great wrestler comes from the showcase singles matches he has, call it around 15 matches per year (9-10 G1 matches + 4-6 marque matches on the big shows per year) and nothing else.  In a non-pandemic year, Okada wrestles about 120-140 times a year and the vast majority make tape thanks to NJ World, so if I used random match theory, only ~12% of the time would I see a performance from Okada that would show me how great he can be.  And I'm someone who believes Okada is inconsistent in those singles matches, so it's an even smaller %.  I can't see an argument for Okada being one of the best wrestlers of 2010s (let alone all time) when so many other wrestlers of the 2010s have a higher batting average.  In truth this could be applied to many NJPW wrestlers where they work in a company that's booked to not have interesting or important tag matches, but I believe I'm far more likely to see a good Ishii or Goto performance on a road to show than an Okada one.

I definitely do not think it is reasonable to hold NJ tags against anyone, and in fact I'd say anyone who actually watches all the Road To shows is a masochist in the same way anyone who watches Raw and SD every week is. 

I don't hold those endless mediocre tags against him, but it does greatly limit how high I can rank the guy when his case consists of lots of 25+ min mid-tempo 50/50 singles matches worked in exactly the same style and... really not a whole lot else.

Plus I get the feeling sometimes that he just isn't that good as wrestling different types of matches. The funniest example is the 2018 All In show where he was wrestling Marty Scurll in a match that was supposed to go 15 minutes, but he went 30 anyway as he had to get all his big nearfalls in and the main event had to be cut short as a result. Or there's the Gedo match which was right after Gedo disgracefully betrayed him in storyline yet Okada just wrestles it like any other match with no hate at all. The Smackdown 03/15/01 match where Austin just beats the life out of Kurt Angle for putting Debra in the ankle lock was a better match than that.