http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-68-clash-of-the-champions-17-2/

 

 

Chad and Parv review Clash of the Champions 17.

 

- [2:26] Wrestling Observer and PW Torch roundup: Ricky Steamboat leaves WWF, Meltzer's HATRED for Van Hammer, Madusa and Sting's "Stinger", and WCW's total mismanagement of Lex Luger's contract clauses.

 

- [29:13] Review of Clash of the Champions 17: The Freebirds as lumberjacks, guy turning babyface by getting kicked out of heel stables = burial?, can Sting back it back from the hospital in time to defend his US title?, and just where does Enforcers vs. Dustin Rhodes and Ricky Steamboat rank in the all-time best WCW matches?

 

- [1:35:44] End of show awards and listener questions

 

AND be sure to check out Matt Ds great companion piece at PTBN: http://placetobenation.com/the-column-beyond-working-hard-working-smart-and-the-art-of-the-southern-tag/

 

The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, youll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past.

A good listen here, as usual.

 

The Enforcers v Steamboat and Rhodes was one that somehow eluded me, in that I never heard that much praise for it in the early '90s. My main opinion-influencers back then were Fin Martin with Power Slam and, kind of separately, Rob Butcher's video trading listings with star ratings. Anyway, for whatever reason I never heard of this as much more than a standard enough tag. I finally got round to seeing it in 2007, and the thing that struck me immediately I was the insane heat throughout. I watched it again last week and it holds up as a classic, I think.

 

However, there's an absolute ton of great tags coming up on WCW tv until at least May '92. I'll be curious to see if you do a 1992 tv special and still feel it holds up or if it becomes one of a great many exceptional matches.

I should say more but I have to point out on the promo for the Clash that you guys played, they mention Steiner vs Luger, Sting (the Living Legend) vs Rude, and then "ALSO: Van Hammer and PN News." The only other two guys mentioned.

 

I've spent part of last week working on a document to sell something to another department and figuring out what they want so we can highlight that. I can almost assure you that someone in the marketing/production team was trying to figure out what the highers up wanted there.

 

Also, remember, 2013 Dolph Ziggler = 91 Van Hammer according to Parv.

I also chuckled at the "Also featuring: Van Hammer and PN News!" tag in the promo.

The conversation on the tag match is just outstanding. I think this is my favorite WTBBP, and I'm not even done yet.

The IWC would collectively shit their pants if they all heard you compare Van Hammer to Ziggler.

I'm not gonna lie, I love Van Hammer in a guilty pleasure sort of way.

 

The fact that he did a glam rock gimmick during the height of grunge.

 

The fact that he once used a pyro shooting guitar as a weapon.

 

The fact that he had total delusions about his place on the card. Watch the Russo/Bischoff promo where they first reboot Nitro. When the entire roster is summoned, Van Hammer waits until everybody else is in the ring and comes down with all of the main eventers like he belongs. He makes sure he's right in view of the camera and laughs and nods at all of Bischoff's smarky digs at the Millionaire's Club. He even high fives Jarrett after some of them. It's one of those things that maybe only I find funny but for whatever reason it always cracks me up. Tremendous.

 

The fact that he quit because he didn't want to be labeled a Private in the Misfits of Action because Private was too low of a rank for someone the legendary status of Van Hammer.

 

Van Hammer is awesome.

On the Van Hammer / Ziggler comparison -- people need to realise that a comparison need not imply equivlaence. In simpler terms, just because I might compare Baron Scicluna working the foreign object with Jerry Lawler, doesn't mean I'm saying Scicluna is as good as Lawler. And likewise, just because I compare Van Hammer working too fast to Ziggler working too fast, doesn't mean that I think Ziggler is as bad as Van Hammer.

 

Things can be similar enough to draw a comparison without being equal.

 

However, I do stand by both 1) the idea that Ziggler and other guys now work too fast and 2) the idea that Van Hammer (the worker, not the gimmick) would get over in the current product.

Parv I really liked the talking point about the Clash feeling really episodic. It had a real UWF t.v show feel to it. Except the Clash didn't end on a cliff hanger. I thought Chad's viewing of the 91 yearbook really added depth to his review of the tag match.

I have to break down and watch that six man and all of the matches leading up to it now, which feels a bit like taking my wrestling medicine.

Easily one of my favorite Clash shows of all time. You guys did a great job.

 

To add to the dragon conversation that I never thought about it until listening to this podcast, but is it the least bit possible that Tony was referring to "the Dragon" as someone from Japan being Tatsumi Fujinami (Steamboat and Fujinami are very similar in size) or was Fujinami seen by the WCW brass despite being the IWGP heavyweight champ as a failed experiment at this point that they wouldn't dare revisit?

 

I think I'm just reading too much into one little comment.

Fujinami isn't a bad choice and they do have the history of bringing in New Japan talent so I could see how some people could think it was him, Muto, etc.

Would have the crowd went nuts for Muta too?

More so than for Fujinami, lol.

I do envision Muto coming out spewing mist being a pretty cool moment especially if Arn freaks out the same way. You could even talk about their tv title backstory or something.

Fortunately, and I don't think anyone says this about WCW too often, that tag turned out basically perfect the way it was. My only objection to it is how mind blowing it would have been if it was 10 minutes longer. Cut out the non-title matches and make this a double heat affair. Dustin Rhodes is a fine face in peril.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I mean I wrote 20,000 words on the match and all and Steamboat was great, but he the shadow-kicks after he lost the mask had him looking like someone's Uncle who was a green belt in karate and showing off at the family Christmas party to kids who are just now old enough to realize he's neither cool nor a Ninja Turtle after all.

I don't remember where I read it, but supposedly the back-up plan in case they couldn't get Steamboat for the Clash was going to be Muta.

I don't even care though that he's bad at karate. After the year WCW fans had sat through, they deserved to see someone like Ricky Steamboat if they stuck it out to November.