Just for argument's sake, we should look at peak vs. peak, top five matches for both guys.

I'm not going to go with Arn, but definitely the Regal match.

 

As for Kid, off the top of my head for singles matches:

 

vs Jerry Lynn (PWA, 5/17/91)

vs Wellington Wilkins Jr. (PWA, 6/10/91)

vs Sabu (NWA, 4/17/93)

vs Bret Hart (WWF Raw, 7/11/94)

 

and probably another Lynn match, but there is too many to chose from. I think those matches are as good as the best Arn singles matches, probably even better.

How about the match Waltman refers to as "the masterpiece"?

 

123 Kid & Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michael & Diesel (WWF, 9/28/94, aired 10/30/94 on Action Zone)

 

edit: ahh, I see you were looking for all singles matches

I don't think its too difficult to make a case for Waltman based solely on singles matches. But when you add in tags, multimans, War Games, promos, angles and every other aspect of the job, I think Arn picks up the victory here.

JvK putting the "pwn" into pwo.

parv, it's interesting that you got so into this particular point when grimmas has shown himself to be an outlier here on multiple occasions. he'll probably be the high vote on bret for the GWE poll, and IIRC he was also the one who said he'd put goldberg in his top 100. he just tends to have a unique take on things, it seems - a well-thought out and interesting one, though!

JvK puts the "Self-servicing poll" in PWO...wait a second...

 

I think the poll sorta removes the argument for Waltman who is pretty clearly not seen above Arn by most. It is less about Grimmas thinking Waltman is better but the overall idea that it is closer than it would appear. But the poll actually works against that entire thought sadly so Waltman might as well be miles away from Arn.

I know they're played out but Parv would make a great evil authority figure.

Im loving the idea that a poll of us is proof of anything. Lol

It is less about Grimmas thinking Waltman is better but the overall idea that it is closer than it would appear. But the poll actually works against that entire thought sadly so Waltman might as well be miles away from Arn.

 

Yeah, exactly. If you work from the starting point of the opening question ("What arguments does X-Pac have to even be in a conversation with an all-time great like Arn?") and the case is laid out through the entire thread, pretty clearly, that there's reason to put him within the same tier, which is the actual argument.

Just watched X-Pac vs. Tajiri from SummerSlam 01' and this thread came to mind. I must admit to having thought that, by 01', Waltman was terrible and that I couldn't enjoy his work anymore as the character had gotten so stale (this is during the time when "XPac Sucks" was a thing) - but that match, aside from the ending, is really, really strong and could've been a 4-star if it had been given more time and ended cleanly.

At the time i thought Pac seemed to be having a lot of fun playing WWF loyalist babyface for a couple of months there. There's a tag match with him and Hardy, I think which I dug 14 years ago but haven't watched since.

 

EDIT: might be this. No idea how it's aged though:

 

Also, it wasn't too long ago that Jack Swagger was a World Heavyweight Champion.

 

 

If Ziggler could be a WHC, I think Waltman could have, too.

 

These title reigns were with the secondary championship. The name of the belt doesn't mean they were the top guy or even close

Was the WHC always considered the secondary title during brand split run? By the point Ziggler and Swagger won, it was, but when it was HHH's title for so many years, it was usually presented as far bigger than a "secondary championship".

The WHC got to close out WM20 and being the Raw title for a long time made it seem like the bigger of the two.

The WHC was the top title when it was the featured belt on Raw. It became secondary after Batista took it to Smackdown after John Cena brought the WWE title to Raw.