Holy crap that is how you put over a new heel. Stomping on the US Title is perfect show of disrespect.

 

By the way when Owens is telling Cena that he has wrested longer than John Cena that is probably pretty close to accurate. I know Owens worked around 2000 near his rookie. I assume that the Prototype worked UPW around 1999 - 2000 but not sure

When I saw that I was thinking Cena has been working longer. And he's definitely had 3 or 4 more times the number of matches, AND he's had a far number more great matches than Steen.

 

Yes I think Steen is good and all, but the amount of praise put on him for me makes him overrated. If I look at his body of work next to Cena's, he's not even on the same level.

 

This year Cena has really cemented his place in wrestling history as one of the all time greats. Can you knock him for being clumsy or not knowing how to do basics like run the ropes but he delivers.

Cena's been in the biggest company in the world for 99% of his career, of course he's going to have way more matches (and more great matches) than Steen. Just the sheer numbers of WWE schedule vs ROH/whereever else Steen's worked scheduled will bear that out. That seems like a pretty unfair bar to stake your preference on.

 

I don't think Steen's the end-all of pro wrestling, but the only knock I can really see on the guy is he doesn't have the physique WWE wants/demands from their top guys. His promos run circles around everyone in the company, and he has that elusive aura that makes people stop and take notice that is sorely missing from anyone in WWE that isn't Brock.

Never been a big indy guy. I've tried. I would just rather spend my time watching old territories or even WWE. I will say that Steen carried himself very well last night and I thought he cut a good promo. I'm surprised seeing people saying it was a bad promo on other boards. I mean if you wanted to talk about a bad promo last night Neville was right there.

 

Unfortunately I had to leave at 10 so I didn't get to see him attack Cena and lay him out. It did save me the frustration of seeing the Dolph/Lana/Rusev eats a Zig Zag segment though.

Watching last night did Steph get her implants removed while she was gone? She was looking 99/2000 levels of normal size

Cena's been in the biggest company in the world for 99% of his career, of course he's going to have way more matches (and more great matches) than Steen. Just the sheer numbers of WWE schedule vs ROH/whereever else Steen's worked scheduled will bear that out. That seems like a pretty unfair bar to stake your preference on.

 

I don't think Steen's the end-all of pro wrestling, but the only knock I can really see on the guy is he doesn't have the physique WWE wants/demands from their top guys. His promos run circles around everyone in the company, and he has that elusive aura that makes people stop and take notice that is sorely missing from anyone in WWE that isn't Brock.

Wasn't giving my preference, just stating statistics. Steen made the comparison and that is what I was commenting on.

 

Who do I like more? Really neither, I've seen enough of Cena. And Steen I like but I'm not a major Steen fan boy that thinks he's great, I think he's good but in my mind when I think of great he's not even in the conversation.

 

Now for comparisons in working conditions ROH and his spot there gave him more freedom and time to have "great" matches, and that is what the company is sold on. WWE is more restricted, but of course more eyes are watching.

 

Gun to my head on who I think is better all around, Cena hands down. But Steen has a ton of potential and I'm excited to see what he does in the next few years.

Yeah that Owens bit fucking ruled. At some other sites I was reading all this shit about Owens being awful on the mic during it. I just watched it and he was great. He was being calm and cocky and he has an accent, as English isn't his first language.

He mentioned he learned English from watching matches called by Jim Ross, it's amazing he doesn't have an Okie accent.

 

Actually, he barely has any accent at all, but that might be because wrestling has trained me to believe all French-Canadians sound like Pat Patterson.

I've seen this mentioned a couple times now, are there really people out there shitting on that Cena/Owens segment? Because that's probably the strongest they've made a new guy look since I don't even know, maybe Khali? That segment was everything I like about wrestling.

There's people who just can't enjoy anything. They have to find anything to complain about when people are all praising something. In this case, it's them going on about Owens' promo.

Owens was great. Cena was great. That segment was great, and it put over NXT and hyped the Takeover special in addition to introducing KO strong to the main audience.

 

Haters gonna hate

That Kevin Owens segment was honestly the segment I remember enjoying the most since Brock's surprise return when he hit the F-5 on Vince McMahon & broke his hip.

 

The Owens segment, in part, worked so well because it was Sami Zayn out there the week before. Owens looks stronger going into his title match with Zayn on the NXT show & looks like a serious threat to even the main roster. He made his belt look stronger. He made his show & match seem more important & he made himself seem like a bigger threat & a big deal. And it set stuff up for the future. That's pro-wrestling.

There's people who just can't enjoy anything. They have to find anything to complain about when people are all praising something. In this case, it's them going on about Owens' promo.

Spot on. I use this to my advantage sometimes as there are certain posters on the internet who if I see them bad mouth something new in their usual bitter OTT manner, chances are there is going to be something of actual value to be found.

On a message board, I'll take someone who's negative about everything but tries to explain why they're negative in a well-thought out fashion over someone who's positive about everything but doesn't bother to explain anything in any real depth.

 

I'd probably rather WATCH wrestling with the other guy, mind you.

Also, John Cena should really be commended for putting over a new guy like a champ. It's practically unheard of for top level guys to do that until they're way past their prime like Brock ragdolling Hogan back in 2003 or so.

Also, John Cena should really be commended for putting over a new guy like a champ. It's practically unheard of for top level guys to do that until they're way past their prime like Brock ragdolling Hogan back in 2003 or so.

And that still only happened because Hogan thought he was going to get his win back in a rematch. I tip my hat to whoever pulled that one over on him.

To be fair, Hogan did an awful lot of losing in that return run.

 

His one big win was for the title, and it felt like an impulse reaction to ride the wave of Hulk-A-Mania nostalgia.

 

Almost everything else was a loss. He lost to Rock, Triple H, Taker, Brock... you name it. He transitioned the tag titles onto the Un-Americans to help heat them up. He tapped out clean to Kurt Angle. And so on.

 

Oh. I think he might have beaten Jericho or some such on a random SmackDown. But come on.

 

Point being, I loved the loss to Lesnar. But it could easily be argued that the moment would've meant more if he hadn't lost to every Tom, Dick, and Harry from that Spring to that Fall in the first place.

Hogan beat Jericho on a SD, and it was one of the better matches he had in that 2002 run

I can't think of another time when putting a title on a guy completely killed his momentum the way it did Hogan in 2002. He could have had a much better run if they hadn't gotten desperate with giving him the belt. It might have even worked if they had maybe built it up more but it was way too fast and babyface HHH was definitely not the right guy to put him over for it.

so that Paige promo on Smackdown? You know where she implied Tamina was a man? Yeesh I thought we were past that stuff in wrestling these days. Cringeworthy

It's so obvious who that stuff comes from especially when you see how HHH books the women in NXT.

Gail Kim, who isn't the type to be calling people out on Twitter, had an interesting post calling Vince out of touch when it comes to booking women. Of course she's right, but it's uncommon for someone not on bad terms with WWE to mention it.

Paige's part in that segment notwithstanding, I thought Naomi brought the goods in BIG TIME fashion there. She killed it. I usually DESPISE the whole "stand there and talk, talk, talk" to your hated enemy from a few feet away thing. It's an outdated relic from the Attitude Era that needs to be obliterated from wrestling immediately. But - and I realize the risk of sounding sexist here - I actually think it's not so bad in the case of the women.

Hear me out. Two men aren't likely to stand across from each other and make sure they properly pronounce every syllable of every word - or think of some "clever" or cute metaphors to accurately describe what they're going to do to one another - along with pausing to take the time to mention the date, time, and place of their upcoming fist fight. It just isn't realistic. It only undermines the moment & exposes things as inauthentic and contrived.

 

But I've known a few women that'll GLADLY take the time to get their verbal shots in first. It's every bit a part of their fight as the clawing, scratching, and swinging. Naomi's insults didn't feel too far off from what she'd probably say in a real life situation. She didn't look like she was reciting bits & pieces from a script. And I didn't get the impression that she was stalling or waiting for her next "turn" to talk. Really refreshing.

I'm glad it's not just me.

 

Going all the way back to the female NXT in 2010 I was always impressed with Naomi's authenticity on the mic. Now that's not to say that she was or is necessarily a particularly polished promo. In fact I don't think she is BUT that is exactly why she works. She doesn't come off as a performer delivering lines or acting, she comes off like a real person trying to cut a wrestling promo.

 

In 2010 she was portraying herself as this natural athlete who was sick of the dog and pony show and NXT bullshit and just wanted to wrestle. So when she had to cut a promo, she said exactly that and came off like exactly that person. She was awkward and didn't seem like she wanted to talk on the mic much, which is what gave her that authenticity. She was an awkward promo, but a believable one, because you knew that she actually meant what she was saying.

 

Fast forward to now, and now that she's the jaded, overlooked, newly-heel Naomi, she's right there cutting promos about being jaded and overlooked, and she comes off as sincere in what she's saying. Again, not necessarily a great promo in a "gifted public speaker" sense, but she doesn't need to be, because that's not who she is. She's this athlete who is forced to talk smack on TV for a living, so she's getting it done. Just that authenticity about her is something I've always liked.

 

Of course a big part of that would be that she does, in fact, believe these things in real life. But that doesn't always translate to being able to sell it on TV. I'm sure Brie really does love Bryan in real life, for example, but she sure as shit still gives the most wooden ass, unbelievable promos even when talking about her real husband's health issues.

I admittedly don't pay much attention to Brie's stuff on TV, but I'm pretty sure she suffers from TRYING to act. When you're wrapped up in getting from A to B to C without "messing up", then yeah. It can totally take you out of the moment & cause a great sense of disconnect with any audience. Doesn't just apply to theater or stage actors, but stand-up comedians & so on as well.

 

Plus, hey. Let's be honest. Not everyone's got a knack for it.

 

Back to Naomi though, I really have been impressed with her since the heel turn. It makes me curious to seek out her previous work, like the stuff you just mentioned, because it's an honest to God blind spot for me completely. Didn't see ANYTHING from the divas NXT season, and Naomi was never really on my radar until the Funkadactyls act came together.

 

But yeah. Her bit on SmackDown was exactly what you said - it was an unpolished, real piece of dialogue that felt (for the most part) almost entirely authentic. Whether she's speaking from the heart or not, it doesn't matter - because it comes across like it's real in that moment, and it seems to have lit a fire under her ass.

 

And, while I don't fault them for falling into the current holding pattern initially, I'd desperately want to see more interviews & promos of THIS type in the future. I don't care that a line might get flubbed. I don't care that it's not polished, sleek, and flawless. I don't want overly sanitized, properly pronounced syllables in every word of every line. These girls wanna fight? Guess what? They're GONNA trip over a word here or there. They're gonna get so riled up & irate that they'll skip a beat, pause, or lose concentration. IT HAPPENS.

 

And that's especially the case with the guys. I just can't stand for them to sit there, hit their marks on dates & events and plots & plans to harm their hated enemies - who are standing approximately five feet away at the time. It's just a bit much, and really - in today's product, with announcers allowed to do ALL the shilling for them - it's a dated model that could quickly go extinct without interrupting a single thing.

I'm not sure I could in good conscience recommend watching the Divas NXT season. The original NXT format is something that still haunts my dreams. But yeah, whenever they had them talking before or after a challenge or what not Naomi always came across as genuine and I was really impressed.

 

On another note, her match vs AJ on NXT was a lot of fun as well.

 

But yeah I'm with you. I like it when lines get flubbed or someone says the wrong thing when it comes off like they're speaking from the heart. WWE needs more of that authenticity.