But if they start airing more & more house shows on the Network, won't they just gradually be inclined to start presenting the house shows like TV? And that'd kind of ruin the experience.

 

 

This Japan show was booked towards the internet/NXT fans and the commentary reflected that by the acknowedging NJPW and Dragon Gate heavily and even a bit on New Japans title history.

It would be too much work to run house shows like TV any way.

Just Run then like the old MSG, MLG and Sectrum shows back in the day plus guys like Byron or Rene would get better with commentary in that environment

No Reaction show podcast for this Show?

 

If feel cheated.

I thought this was a really good show and a great example of what this roster could do with two hour Raws. The presentation felt different; you had the spot heavy opener, the Brock squash, the Balor title win and the Saturday Night's Main Event main with the Cena win. Imagine that kind of tightness with WWEs three hour nonsense.

No Reaction show podcast for this Show?

 

If feel cheated.

 

Reaction show is up!

 

http://placetobenation.com/ptbn-reaction-show-wwe-the-beast-in-the-east/

Balor-Owens was a horrible your turn-my turn match. Both of them seem to have regressed from their indy days and they weren't exactly elite workers to begin with.

Balor-Owens was a horrible your turn-my turn match.

 

This is one criticism I've yet to understand. The alternative to this "turn" theory is a squash. If one doesn't like the offense, the selling, the approach in a given match explain why it didn't work. The fact that both participants had ball control doesn't get there.

 

Balor-Owens was a horrible your turn-my turn match.

 

This is one criticism I've yet to understand. The alternative to this "turn" theory is a squash. If one doesn't like the offense, the selling, the approach in a given match explain why it didn't work. The fact that both participants had ball control doesn't get there.

 

 

Well said. These sort of "sounds good on paper" criticisms are getting too wide spread, with zero foundation behind them.

It wasn't something I cared much for, but I get what they did and why. It looked a lot like that faux 90s All Japan style that the U.S. indies and to a point modern New Japan like to employ. Lots of big moves with little to no consequence besides nearfalls and laying around.

I've just seen Jericho vs Neville so far but I'm a little floored by how much I enjoyed it. My only real annoyance is that the crowd didn't turn on Jericho at all once he started playing the frustrated vet. They were just so glad to be there.

It isn't like the Japanese fans have never seen a babyface lose his cool in their matches. But yeah the spectacle of WWE being in there overruled all of anything they intended to elicit with booking.

 

 

 

 

Balor-Owens was a horrible your turn-my turn match.

This is one criticism I've yet to understand. The alternative to this "turn" theory is a squash. If one doesn't like the offense, the selling, the approach in a given match explain why it didn't work. The fact that both participants had ball control doesn't get there.

Well said. These sort of "sounds good on paper" criticisms are getting too wide spread, with zero foundation behind them.

I'm sorry for thinking a quasi-Brainbuster and a finisher kick-out don't make it a great match.

That wasn't the point you originally made or the one that I raised upon reading it. I'm sure that much is clear.

It has already been mentioned by others but for me the production change is what made this great. Hard camera + standard pro wrestling camerawork instead of the bouncy Kevin Dunn trademark editing that avoids showing any kind of impact. On the other hard, there were some camera mishaps that you rarely see on WWE and in some cases the moves missing or not being executed properly. I'm not saying that guys have to take DDT's right on their head and get concussed but at least cover it up using camera angles. At any case, I am looking forward to the day where Kevin Dunn retires to some paradise island with all the stupid amounts of money that he's made. I don't know if him or Nash are the most ridiculously overpaid person ever in wrestling. At least Dunn works very hard.

 

The commentary was if anything refreshing. Cole talking about Best of the Super Juniors was quite the WTF moment. I still don't quite like Byron Saxton, he sounds too much like a video game announcer with pre-programmed lines, however both felt relaxed and like they were having fun. In fact almost everybody in the show looked like they were having a good time.

 

I liked how this clearly felt like a WWE show in Japan, however if you see Raw in London you don't know it's in London except for the black cab at the entrance or the Union Jack on the video panels. It has been repeated a million times here and elsewhere but they need to start adding more local or national flavour to their shows.

 

The Brock match brought me back to Superstars in 1990 (I'm saying that like it's a good thing) and I liked Jericho vs Neville. Everything else was at least entertaining.

 

They should try to do one of this shows every few weeks as Network specials... my interest on the WWE network is quite low nowadays but this will make me stay.

Most pro wrestling matches do truly feature wrestlers exchanging control segments over the course of the match. Ideally you'd want transitions from one control segment to another to matter and be performed in an engaging way and a compelling match structure that wouldn't feel stale. This isn't something Devitt was ever good at and a new name and theme music haven't changed that.

Most pro wrestling matches do truly feature wrestlers exchanging control segments over the course of the match. Ideally you'd want transitions from one control segment to another to matter and be performed in an engaging way and a compelling match structure that wouldn't feel stale.

 

All subjective words.

 

Your original point was that the match felt "your turn / my turn". It depends on what you subjective stance of what makes a good match is (which you have indicated above whilst unknowingly expressing it's subjective) but at the end of the day wrestling matches do tend to be "your turn / my turn" in a competitive match, it's the nature of the beast. But you are implying this is some form of dirty method and the choice of wording "your turn / my turn" sounds patronizing. It's meant to be a competitive contest.

 

Most pro wrestling matches do truly feature wrestlers exchanging control segments over the course of the match. Ideally you'd want transitions from one control segment to another to matter and be performed in an engaging way and a compelling match structure that wouldn't feel stale.

 

All subjective words.

 

Your original point was that the match felt "your turn / my turn". It depends on what you subjective stance of what makes a good match is (which you have indicated above whilst unknowingly expressing it's subjective) but at the end of the day wrestling matches do tend to be "your turn / my turn" in a competitive match, it's the nature of the beast. But you are implying this is some form of dirty method and the choice of wording "your turn / my turn" sounds patronizing. It's meant to be a competitive contest.

 

You can have a competitive contest with control segments and transitions.

I don't get why transitions need to be so intricate or amazing. One dude misses a move. Another takes over. There's your transition. One dude counters a move and takes over. Its a fight.

I don't get why transitions need to be so intricate or amazing. One dude misses a move. Another takes over. There's your transition. One dude counters a move and takes over. Its a fight.

However, generally, when a match is just trading big moves it doesn't make for much of a story.

 

I thought the match was pretty good for a Devitt match. I had it at about 3 3/4, so really high for me.

 

 

Most pro wrestling matches do truly feature wrestlers exchanging control segments over the course of the match. Ideally you'd want transitions from one control segment to another to matter and be performed in an engaging way and a compelling match structure that wouldn't feel stale.

All subjective words.

 

This is probably the worst point anyone has ever made in a discussion about pro wrestling. Of course it's subjective. We argue based on our interpretations and enjoyment. Of course it's MY fucking opinion. What do you want me to do, add IMO to the end of every post I make? If you don't agree with me and have valid arguments against me, fire away.

 

 

Owens/Balor is a your turn/my turn match, just like the Cena/Owens matches were. I don't think that makes them inherently bad, I just don't think in this particular instance it was well worked within that style. I've loved many spotfests that shared some choices in artistic expression with Balor/Owens. If you're bothered by the wording and find it patronizing I apologize but I stand by it and like how it sounds-I'm not changing it.

I happen to come down on the side of GOTNW here, but I feel like we need to tone the tempers down. It's an argument on an internet message board fellas.

 

I have that criticism of a lot of modern wrestling really. There is a distinct lack of meaningful transitions and more emphasis on getting in as much big stuff as possible during the finishing stretch. I won't try to stop anyone from enjoying something like Owens/Balor, but it's not my cup of tea.

Owens/Balor is a your turn/my turn match

 

I hope this doesn't become an annoying thing.

It has already been mentioned by others but for me the production change is what made this great. Hard camera + standard pro wrestling camerawork instead of the bouncy Kevin Dunn trademark editing that avoids showing any kind of impact. On the other hard, there were some camera mishaps that you rarely see on WWE and in some cases the moves missing or not being executed properly. I'm not saying that guys have to take DDT's right on their head and get concussed but at least cover it up using camera angles. At any case, I am looking forward to the day where Kevin Dunn retires to some paradise island with all the stupid amounts of money that he's made. I don't know if him or Nash are the most ridiculously overpaid person ever in wrestling. At least Dunn works very hard.

 

The commentary was if anything refreshing. Cole talking about Best of the Super Juniors was quite the WTF moment. I still don't quite like Byron Saxton, he sounds too much like a video game announcer with pre-programmed lines, however both felt relaxed and like they were having fun. In fact almost everybody in the show looked like they were having a good time.

 

I liked how this clearly felt like a WWE show in Japan, however if you see Raw in London you don't know it's in London except for the black cab at the entrance or the Union Jack on the video panels. It has been repeated a million times here and elsewhere but they need to start adding more local or national flavour to their shows.

 

The Brock match brought me back to Superstars in 1990 (I'm saying that like it's a good thing) and I liked Jericho vs Neville. Everything else was at least entertaining.

 

They should try to do one of this shows every few weeks as Network specials... my interest on the WWE network is quite low nowadays but this will make me stay.

 

 

100% agree with all of this.

 

Announcers being left alone was a tremendous improvement, no one's going to think Cole is the next Gordon Solie but he sounded like a human being instead of WWE Catchphrase Bot 3000.

 

It was so refreshing to watch a WWE show without the 90s MTV zoomy shakey-cam bullshit. The Japanese crew wasn't perfect but it was worth a few missed shots to not have to worry about becoming violently nauseous during a heat segment.