Kris is joined by Rob Bihari & Joe Lanza (Voices of Wrestling) to discuss the evolution of the live wrestling audience. We discuss the early beginnings of the wrestling chants and how ECW played a major factor in it but weren’t the true genesis. We also discuss our favorite wrestling towns and venues as well as live experiences which are worldwide. We also put WWE on blast on how they can make their product more appealing to their fans. This is a great show and if you love or hate the wrestling chant culture this is a must listen!!!

 

http://placetobenation.com/exile-on-badstreet-17-the-crowd-goes-wild/

Just popped so huge for the screen grab of John "Straw Hat Guy" Bailey from my doc as your Soundcloud image for this week. Haha. Can't wait to listen, always. Thanks.

Just popped so huge for the screen grab of John "Straw Hat Guy" Bailey from my doc as your Soundcloud image for this week. Haha. Can't wait to listen, always. Thanks.

 

I noticed when doing the google images search it was the first one and sourced as Barbed Wire City so good marketing on your part Johnny.

Re: Charlotte venues

 

The Park Center later was renamed Grady Cole Center. SMW ran there in 1995 (famous Gangstas/Thugs match from SMW project that I filmed occurred there). I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grady_Cole_Center

 

Bojangles Center must be what Rob was trying to think of. I'm assuming that's the former Charlotte Coliseum but not sure.

Yeah he clarified later on Twitter it was the Bojangles Center.

This show was a blast to do and I wanted to thank Kris publicly for the invite. I'll do it again any time.

Good show. I think one thing people have forgotten is how bad a lot of the crowds were during the last wrestling boom. Go back and watch those late 90s Raws and Nitros and a ton of those fans are just watching the trons, completely spazzing out when they see that they are on TV. In some ways those crowds had a real party atmosphere that most wrestling is missing these days, but much of the time they also felt like wrestling was only half of the reason why there were there. Between YouTube and social media, I feel like people have gotten that "I'M ON TV" thing largely out of their systems, and modern crowds are better for it. As Rob said, modern crowds are also a lot more forgiving. I see guys make major botches in the most smarky workrate indies going, Evolve and PWG, and no one chants "You fucked up" or even turns on the matches.

 

Yeah, modern crowds chant, and a couple of them ("We are awesome" and "Wreeeeestling...Yaaaay") are really annoying, but usually the chants are appreciative and about what's going on in the ring. It's easy to be cynical about the "Women's Wrestling" and "You Deserve This" chants at the last Bayley/Sasha match, but I believe that was genuine appreciation from those fans and it prompted genuine emotion from the wrestlers, and isn't that what the whole fucking thing is about? Like the guys said, most of the worst chants come out when fans are bored. That's not limited to wrestling, I'm a hockey fan and I've seen fans chant for their local baseball team and throw food and jerseys on the ice when they're unhappy. If what you gives fans captivates them, their smarkiness goes way down.

One philosophical thing that we never got into because we went into more of a fun "three dudes bullshitting about wrestling" direction, is that I believe the way wrestlers work a match, like anything else, has been forced to evolve over time.

 

Think about a 1980's WWF house show mid card match. Heel grabs a hold. Say, a reverse chin lock. Fans slow clap, get behind the baby, he balls his fists, gets to his feet... and the heel cuts him off and grinds the hold back in. This goes on two or three or four more times, the baby getting closer and closer to breaking the hold. A good heel knows just when to peak this, and when the baby finally delivers those elbows to the gut, breaks free, and makes his fiery comeback, the fans go bonkers.

 

We've all seen that spot a million times. That used to be indicative of great work.

 

You can't work like that anymore.

 

You will lose a modern crowd working like that. Everybody in the venue, ages 8 - 80, has some sort of device... a phone, a tablet, a smart watch... and it is harder than ever to hold a crowd of peoples attention. That "grab a hold, work a tease, go to the comeback" spot would die a painful death if you tried that shit in 2015. WWE wrestlers grab holds for 15 seconds these days and lose crowds. Imagine working that classic spot for 8 or 9 minutes. Of course the crowd would lose interest, and maybe even *GASP* break in to a chant. You have to work faster now, provide more action, because attention spans are shorter than ever. People won't sit there and watch you grind in a side headlock, because they'll just play Candy Crush or refresh their Twitter page instead. I'm in my late 30's and i'm addicted to my phone, and the generations younger than me are even worse.

 

Holding peoples attention has never been harder. It used to be that the match was the entertainment when you went to a match, but now if the match stinks, finding something else to do is right in your pocket. We've all seen bored RAW crowds playing with their phones. I'd much rather a bored RAW crowd puts themselves over with a chant. At least they're trying.

Dustin's made that spot work more than a few times over the last four years or so.

The problem with WWE doing that style of work today is back in the day the wrestlers could play to the fans to rile them up....they can't do that now so if they lock a hold they are just there like a statue....not talking shit to the fans or whatever else.

The problem with WWE doing that style of work today is back in the day the wrestlers could play to the fans to rile them up....they can't do that now so if they lock a hold they are just there like a statue....not talking shit to the fans or whatever else.

 

I guess that's why it stood out to me so much last night when Brie Bella took the fans' chants of "We Want Becky" and used them to rile the crowd and get them to do the No/Yes thing with her Bryan-style kicks on FIP Paige.

 

Not only was it Brie Bella who did it (as opposed to Kevin Owens or someone), but it was obviously her responding to something that couldn't have been easily predicted in random Becky Lynch chants.

 

It was as heelish as you get in 2015 WWE. More so, probably.

The problem with WWE doing that style of work today is back in the day the wrestlers could play to the fans to rile them up....they can't do that now so if they lock a hold they are just there like a statue....not talking shit to the fans or whatever else.

Bingo. It's not just the move, but what they can do with the move. Shit talking the crowd, teasing a foreign object spot, moving between a choke and a chin lock etc. It's funny you see AJ Styles do this and shit talk the NJPW audience who might not even know what he is saying. It gets over, yet WWE won't allow it.

Good show. I think one thing people have forgotten is how bad a lot of the crowds were during the last wrestling boom. Go back and watch those late 90s Raws and Nitros and a ton of those fans are just watching the trons, completely spazzing out when they see that they are on TV. In some ways those crowds had a real party atmosphere that most wrestling is missing these days, but much of the time they also felt like wrestling was only half of the reason why there were there. Between YouTube and social media, I feel like people have gotten that "I'M ON TV" thing largely out of their systems, and modern crowds are better for it. As Rob said, modern crowds are also a lot more forgiving. I see guys make major botches in the most smarky workrate indies going, Evolve and PWG, and no one chants "You fucked up" or even turns on the matches.

Interesting point about being on tv losing its novelty. next time I watch something modern I'll have to keep an eye out but it definitely seems like it happens less these days.

I didn't get to listen yet but Joe strawmanning about people holding up '80s midcard WWF house show wrestling as something fans into older wrestling hold up as great work makes me hesitant. Even for Kris and Rob's sake.

I didn't get to listen yet but Joe strawmanning about people holding up '80s midcard WWF house show wrestling as something fans into older wrestling hold up as great work makes me hesitant. Even for Kris and Rob's sake.

 

Huh?

 

That post is about shorter attention spans in society as a whole and the challenges workers face working in front of modern crowds as a result. I used that WWF 80's house show spot as an example or something you rarely (if ever) see anymore, which to me is a direct result of that type of spot leaving too much room to lose a modern audience.

 

I could have used the long abdominal stretch spot next to the ropes where the heel grabs the ropes for leverage behind the refs back, or hide the invisible chain, or a million other spots that you rarely ever see these days as the example. I wasn't trying to say that the long tease side headlock was held up as the gold standard of classic wrestling.

 

 

I didn't get to listen yet but Joe strawmanning about people holding up '80s midcard WWF house show wrestling as something fans into older wrestling hold up as great work makes me hesitant. Even for Kris and Rob's sake.

Huh?

 

That post is about shorter attention spans in society as a whole and the challenges workers face working in front of modern crowds as a result. I used that WWF 80's house show spot as an example or something you rarely (if ever) see anymore, which to me is a direct result of that type of spot leaving too much room to lose a modern audience.

 

I could have used the long abdominal stretch spot next to the ropes where the heel grabs the ropes for leverage behind the refs back, or hide the invisible chain, or a million other spots that you rarely ever see these days as the example. I wasn't trying to say that the long tease side headlock was held up as the gold standard of classic wrestling.

But you're citing examples of wrestlers just sitting and not actually working holds. For all of the shit he got for it, Randy Orton was controlling crowds just fine with his chinlocks until he got lazy with them. When he looked like he was trying to tear someone's head off and mixing that with good body language and facials, it worked.

 

We're also coming off the best and hottest Raw in months where the crowd was actually responding to the work in the ring. Which has nothing to do with the rest hold discussion specifically, but it's a lot more fun than the masturbatory exercises we get from Full Sail etc.

 

 

I didn't get to listen yet but Joe strawmanning about people holding up '80s midcard WWF house show wrestling as something fans into older wrestling hold up as great work makes me hesitant. Even for Kris and Rob's sake.

Huh?

 

That post is about shorter attention spans in society as a whole and the challenges workers face working in front of modern crowds as a result. I used that WWF 80's house show spot as an example or something you rarely (if ever) see anymore, which to me is a direct result of that type of spot leaving too much room to lose a modern audience.

 

I could have used the long abdominal stretch spot next to the ropes where the heel grabs the ropes for leverage behind the refs back, or hide the invisible chain, or a million other spots that you rarely ever see these days as the example. I wasn't trying to say that the long tease side headlock was held up as the gold standard of classic wrestling.

But you're citing examples of wrestlers just sitting and not actually working holds. For all of the shit he got for it, Randy Orton was controlling crowds just fine with his chinlocks until he got lazy with them. When he looked like he was trying to tear someone's head off and mixing that with good body language and facials, it worked.

 

We're also coming off the best and hottest Raw in months where the crowd was actually responding to the work in the ring. Which has nothing to do with the rest hold discussion specifically, but it's a lot more fun than the masturbatory exercises we get from Full Sail etc.

Joe sounds like Cliff Compton doing the Domino gimmick.

I wanted to give a different perspective on being quiet during a show. I am an introvert. Being loud just isn't something I do. I just like going to shows and quietly watching the matches. But that's a personality thing.

I wanted to give a different perspective on being quiet during a show. I am an introvert. Being loud just isn't something I do. I just like going to shows and quietly watching the matches. But that's a personality thing.

 

You're never going to get yourself over that way

I wanted to give a different perspective on being quiet during a show. I am an introvert. Being loud just isn't something I do. I just like going to shows and quietly watching the matches. But that's a personality thing.

 

And that is totally understandable.....if you are doing it for ancillary reasons then that's different.

I had to have a real conversation with myself when I bought my ticket to Chikara. I got a front row seat and had to ask myself if I was okay with being on camera during the show and have the wrestlers potentially try to interact with me.