Posted November 28, 200519 yr comment_4024341 ESPN actually went out and made a good show for once. Good debate and little side bullshit. This is essentially Bert Sugar's Top 10: 1. Joe Louis 2. Muhammad Ali 3. Jack Dempsey 4. Jack Johnson 5. Gene Tunney 6. Rocky Marciano 7. Ezzard Charles 8. George Foreman 9. Joe Frazier 10. Larry Holmes I'm surprised that none of the placement really bothered me. I could argue flipping some spots but it's an either way thing for me. I've heard some whining about Ali not being 1 and Tunney being too high but it doesn't bug me. A lot of good footage was thrown in during the six hour show. Marciano's KO on Walcott might be one of the sickest I've ever seen.
November 29, 200519 yr comment_4027475 That photo of Marciano landing the KO punch has to be seen to be believed. Bert Sugar has always held a vendetta against Ali's style, so it is no shock whatsoever to see him rate Louis above Ali. I actually have his book from 20 years ago, and his ratings then were Dempsey, Louis, Ali, Johnson, Tunney, Marciano, Charles, Corbett, Frazier, Sullivan. Tunney's overrated on this list. He had three heavyweight bouts of consequence. The two against Dempsey, and a third against Tom Heeney. He rates very highly on the list of great pound for pound fighters, but his accomplishments strictly as a heavyweight pale in comparison.
November 29, 200519 yr Author comment_4027537 I kinda scratched my head for Ezzard Charles as well. It seems his heavyweight accomplishments were losing to Walcott and Louis. I've talked with a few other people over this and they seem to want Foreman, Holmes and Frazier higher. I don't really see how any of them deserve a better standing. Holmes dominated in a weak division, Foreman lacked stamina and Frazier couldn't beat Foreman. I wonder if the people at Marciano/Walcott were worried that Walcott was dead after that shot. That was just a vicious shot.
November 29, 200519 yr comment_4028737 I kinda scratched my head for Ezzard Charles as well. It seems his heavyweight accomplishments were losing to Walcott and Louis. Charles beat Louis. Charles beat several top heavyweight challengers of his day, but if the lack of competition drops Marciano to sixth, what does it say for the fighter who fought in the same era and lost twice to the Rock? Charles was a fantastic fighter, but his best accomplishments were outside the heavyweight division. I've talked with a few other people over this and they seem to want Foreman, Holmes and Frazier higher. I don't really see how any of them deserve a better standing. Holmes dominated in a weak division, Foreman lacked stamina and Frazier couldn't beat Foreman. You can rank them above Charles and Tunney, but I think it's a stretch after that. It's tricky to rate that group of fighters, because at some point you need to throw Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis into the conversation. Recent fighters are tricky to rate. I wonder if the people at Marciano/Walcott were worried that Walcott was dead after that shot. That was just a vicious shot. Watching the fight film, Walcott sank, and was flat out. However, Walcott was up within a minute or two of the knockout.
November 29, 200519 yr Author comment_4030360 Opps, I thought Louis beat Charles for some reason. Title Bout sims must be messing with my head. They did talk about Lennox Lewis at the end of the show and Bert Sugar said he'd be about at 19th or 20th on his list.
November 29, 200519 yr comment_4031928 Lewis has got to be higher than that. He cleaned out a heavyweight division that, while lacking truly great fighters, had several very good ones. Lewis owns victories over Vitali Klitschko, Mike Tyson, Hasim Rahman, David Tua, Evander Holyfield, Shannon Briggs, Oliver McCall, Andrew Golota, Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrison, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker and Razor Ruddock. Lewis lost just twice in his career, and got those wins back in convincing fashion.
November 29, 200519 yr Author comment_4032229 Sugar discounted his wins over Holyfield and Tyson because he caught them in the twilights of their career. Can you still find that 100 Greatest Fighters book that Sugar put out?
November 29, 200519 yr comment_4032424 Sugar discounted his wins over Holyfield and Tyson because he caught them in the twilights of their career. Can you still find that 100 Greatest Fighters book that Sugar put out? It's not like Lewis was some young kid. Lewis was less than a year older than Tyson, and three years YOUNGER than Holyfield. Sugar's book is out of print. However, he apparently has a new book coming out called "Boxing's Greatest Fighters".
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