i've seen the argument before that Cena's STF is that loose on purpose, so kids won't kill each other if they imitate it. like maybe he hinted at that in an interview or something? i forget exactly

The STF doesn't bother me because it's been built and has symbolic meaning. If the company treats it as a big deal and it's sold as a big deal, it's a big deal. I wonder if that means I'd be okay with the Rainmaker? I have no idea.

Although I'm much higher on Cena than I was two years ago, I still don't exactly like his offense. Too much of it is weak looking, like the STF or AA, or deosn't get executed well, like that springboard stunner.

Although I'm much higher on Cena than I was two years ago, I still don't exactly like his offense. Too much of it is weak looking, like the STF or AA, or deosn't get executed well, like that springboard stunner.

I think the two wrestlers I like the most, but generally hate all of their offense is Cena and Edge. I think both of those guys are somewhere between very good and excellent wrestlers, but all of their offense sucks ass.

I wouldn't say all of Edge's offense looked bad. Most of it was looser than it should've been, yeah, but that fit into his style of "throw everything at 'em and wait for a mistake." It flows with the years of TLC matches and blended perfectly with the "Ultimate Opportunist" stuff.

I wouldn't say all of Edge's offense looked bad. Most of it was looser than it should've been, yeah, but that fit into his style of "throw everything at 'em and wait for a mistake." It flows with the years of TLC matches and blended perfectly with the "Ultimate Opportunist" stuff.

I don't know if it looked bad or just looked like his moves were made to look cool more than they were made to actually hurt his opponents.

This thing is pretty damn stupid:

 

Definitely more a "this is meant to look cool" type of moveset. The half-nelson facebuster actually looked good in certain instances.

This thing is pretty damn stupid:

 

Doesn't look any worse than those spots where a guy's head gets rammed into the announce table and they put their hands up to avoid real contact. Or a pedigree.

The issue is with Edge's center of gravity. He literally can't get the opponent to land like that.

The AA looked a million times better in Cena's early days when it was more of a Death Valley Driver. I'm guessing it got toned down when WWE got rid of any moves remotely head-droppish.

This thing is pretty damn stupid:

 

 

I spent a good 30 seconds trying to figure when the hell 2016 Dolph Ziggler traveled back in time to wrestle 2011 Dolph Ziggler.

 

Because that does look like a move Dolph would try to execute on offense too.

The issue is with Edge's center of gravity. He literally can't get the opponent to land like that.

He falls forward and takes the opponent down with him. I don't see why that stands out in a world where suplexes and Irish whips are commonplace.

Edge never met a move he couldn't modify.

I like Lio Rush, but that Spanish Fly he does is BAD.

The first time I saw it I had to watch it three times before I figured out what it was meant to be and then watch it another five times before I figured out how it was supposed to hurt someone.

Going trough the painfull TNA Summer of 2004 (seemingly got really bad with the anniversary show after a bunch of really good shows), Petey Williams seems like one of the worst laws-of-gravity offender ever. The Canadian Destroyer is obviously a dumb as fuck move (while the Code Red can pass for playable if you do it with enough momentum), but he does something even worst. I wouldn't even know how to describe it. He gets like a reversed front face lock, like a reverse DDT position, then seemingly pushes the other guy... upside (???) so the other guy does a flip onward to bumps on his face and belly, while Williams himself bumps backward on his ass. WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT ? Even Edge would find this shit stupid.

I just looked up a "top 10 moves of" video and saw it. Wow, that's awful.

The leg lariat. Has anyone ever hit an impactful leg lariat? They all look like shit to me. The worst part of Sami Zayn's arsenal is that godawful leg lariat. Just do a spinning heel kick, way cooler.

Leg Lariat is total garbage good one

Does Zayn actually do a Leg Lariat? Ryder's finisher is a Leg Lariat. Zayn might do a Calf Kick which looks good only when Kikuchi does it.

Can I cast a vote for anything ZSJ throws? He means well but nothing looks like it has the slightest impact, and I'm not someone who's a stickler for that.

GOTNW, I am pretty sure a leg lariat is when the outside of the leg is what hits the opponent. Dean Malenko was a big user of the move. Zayn throws at least one of these a match. Ryder's finish is not a classical leg lariat, but does look more like a lariat. I have not watched enough Kikuchi, but if he can make that move look good then he is an all-time great because that move sucks.

I thought the move that Ryder/Doug Basham used is a leg lariat, and that's a move I actually really like. I'm with GOTNW in that I always thought that Malenko kick was called a calf kick, and yeah other than Kikuchi it always looks horrible.

How hard would you have to kick someone with your calf for it to actually hurt?

Leg Lariat: like a lariat (clothesline with forward momentum), but with the leg.

 

Calf Kick: like a running dropkick, but the calf is meant to connect with the face.

 

Ryder's finish is a Leg Lariat. Zayn uses a Calf Kick. A Leg Lariat is meant to stun and transition quickly into a pin, a Calf Kick is meant for a quick stun to buy time.

I hate the set up of Cena's Five Knuckle Shuffle. The three shoulder tackles, followed by the opponent always throwing one random, wild punch which he always manages to duck to hit the slam. So choreographed and repetitive. Always thought it was far worse than the move itself.