15 hours ago, El-P said:

As far as universally acclaimed match, no, he really doesn't.

Universally acclaimed is a bit tough considering how small our circles are, but the other Valentine match ought to be in that category. He's another guy who was better before he went to work for Vince. 

Valentine worked for both Vince's at the top of the cards for years and years, He had programs and great matches with Bruno, Backlund, and Hogan. He was THE Heel IC Champ feuding with Tito as Rock n Wrestling exploded. Then, he was responsible for the only good Beefcake matches ever as he carried him along with their opponents to great matches. Greg Valentine was a New York guy through and through.

I was talking about Piper. 

I know there are Filsinger players here but I thought I would post it. $10 for a virtual convention and Austin Idol is doing a Q&A for a 30 minute segment. 

https://filsingergames.com/filsinger-games-holiday-kickoff-virtual-con-featuring-austin-idol/

Man, I had a set for CotG back in the day, right alongside my IWA gazettes from the two leagues I was in. Then efeds happened and they were free.

Is that Filsinger Online thing worthwhile?

So when did the claw hold become the most hated move in wrestling? I keep seeing people talk about it as the fakest looking move in wrestling, but I never thought it was any more or less silly than any other pro wrestling maneuver that would have no real basis in an actual fight. I think the issue is people who use it nowadays tend to put it on as loosely as possible and that makes it look like shit. I never thought the Von Erichs or the Baron looked bad doing the claw, they had 8 year old me believing they were squeezing people's heads in.  

Because it always looks like shit (and yes it includes the Von Erichs), it's incredibly dumb as a hold anyway (what is it supposed to accomplish apart from a face massage ?) and maybe it was cool in the 50's or something but for fuck's sake in 2021 it's embarrassing.

It's supposed to squeeze the victim's temples causing pain to the point they pass out if they don't submit. I suppose it worked for me because World Class would do promos where Fritz would put over all the work he put into making it a devastating hold (and even as an old man Fritz had that aura of a dude who could def. crush your head with his hands if he wanted to) so it was enough to convince me he could teach his kids to do it too. 

Fritz von Erich's claw hold is better than anything in 2021 wrestling. 

Ok boomer

(sorry, but I had to do it eventually and that was the perfect spot for it )

But yeah, the claw is thrash. Makes the pro-wrestling fan in me die a little inside each time I see it.

29 minutes ago, sek69 said:

It's supposed to squeeze the victim's temples causing pain to the point they pass out if they don't submit.

It was a rhetorical question, I know what it's supposed to do...  I used to massage the temples of my ex-girlfriend when she was hangover and I would absolutely do it in a claw way (not on her face though, but I absolutely thought about the damn wrestling hold !). To me it's like the infamous trapeze hold aka the samoan shoulder massage.

If you want to see the claw used effectively in modern wrestling, look at the way Akiyama put it over in his 2020 D-Ou match against Higuchi in DDT.

I only got into wrestling in 2015 so I'm a fairly new fan and I have no issues with the claw when it looks tight on the face. I also popped huge for O-Khan stopping an Ibushi knee with his claw but that was because it was glorious silly anime bollocks.

Also this is an obscure reference but I've been completely sold on the claw since I saw Yuen Wah destroy Yuen Baio with it in the classic 80s Sammo flick Eastern Condors.

 

(can't believe my first post is about the claw lol)

 

I have no problem buying a man the size of Fritz Von Erich squeezing someone's temples as a legitimate match ender. My issue with it is that it's hard to build a compelling match around because it's so simple to apply. At least make it so it only works with a loaded glove or something.

34 minutes ago, MD Hambo said:

If you want to see the claw used effectively in modern wrestling, look at the way Akiyama put it over in his 2020 D-Ou match against Higuchi in DDT.

I don't want to see the claw period. Like, I don't want to see it. At all. Ever. Please, people. Just stop doing it. It makes me sad.

34 minutes ago, MD Hambo said:

I also popped huge for O-Khan stopping an Ibushi knee with his claw but that was because it was glorious silly anime bollocks.

Yeah, but that's part of Ibushi deranged genius. Only he could come up with something like this and make it work to boot.

To me it falls into the category of "if it's over, it works" category like the People's Elbow. Is it silly and unrealistic? Yep, but the crowds went nuts for it and that's all that matters. The Texas crowds would react to a Von Erich getting someone in the claw like it was peak Stone Cold dealing out Stunners. 

The People's Elbow was cool as a move. That's the difference to me. I'd rather have a move that is absolutely ludicrous and overtly ridiculous but actually cool and dynamic in its execution than a move that has some awkward "kayfabe" explanation dating back from the "let's play the marks" era but looks awfully dull (not to mention something that *anyone*, yours truly included, can execute). That's the difference to me. I know it's been an accepted spot, but the form of it makes it just a no-no for me. Here's hoping no one brings back the heart-punch as a finisher in NJPW.

1 hour ago, El-P said:

Makes the pro-wrestling fan in me die a little inside each time I see it.

I know exactly what you mean. That is how I feel every time I watch a Kenny Omega promo or a Young Bucks match.

What if they ran the ropes twice, danced, struck a pose and then did a heart punch?

Just now, The Thread Killer said:

I know exactly what you mean. That is how I feel every time I watch a Kenny Omega promo or a Young Bucks match.

You don't have to watch it at all though, since you don't like the current stuff anyway.

While I, as I'm watching the fucking NJPW G1 in 2021, am not supposed to get see a fucking CLAW HOLD by a goofball disguised in mongolian gimmick. 

2 minutes ago, MD Hambo said:

What if they ran the ropes twice, danced, struck a pose and then did a heart punch?

That works.

I love the heart punch in the Stasisk vs Rose Portland matches because of how terrified Buddy is of it. But it’s admittedly a lot harder to protect a move in a world when very little about wrestling is protected.

Actually, tons of finishers are protected today. But there are like hundreds more moves than before, and only a few of them actually need to be protected, because if not, well, 90% of moves would be finishers. 

5 minutes ago, El-P said:

You don't have to watch it at all though, since you don't like the current stuff anyway.

 I have been watching AEW for the past few months. I even paid for the last pay-per-view.   They are doing a lot of stuff right at this point. Full credit to them, I would say at this point they are doing a lot more right than they are wrong.

But I still don’t like listening to Kenny try and talk, and I especially don’t like watching The Hardly Boys and their tumbling routine.

 

 

Just now, The Thread Killer said:

 I have been watching AEW for the past few months. I even paid for the last pay-per-view.   They are doing a lot of stuff right at this point. Full credit to them, I would say at this point they are doing a lot more right than they are wrong.

Damn ! Hey, glad you found something to enjoy there then !

I'll admit to being an absolute mark for the claw. I love it being used by heel Fritz in Japan as a device to mean he's always a threat (like when he kicks out of a Baba pinfall and is able to immediately apply a claw to Baba's prone stomach), and I love his sons using it as a babyface move where they build a bunch of drama out of trying to apply it and the heel trying to fend it off. It's greatness is in it's simplicity.