Say what you will about Vince, but his choice to open WrestleManias with "America the Beautiful" instead of the awful Star Spangled Banner, our national anthem that is musically great but lyrically awful, was one of his great decisions.

Jeff Hardy coming out doped up on PPV was an awful situation that could have been tragic. But Sting shoot pinning him was bad ass.

I thought this was really good. By Brandon Howard:

 

 

I thought this was really good. By Brandon Howard:

 

 

Brandon is so great. Wrestlenomics is in the absolute top tier of wrestling pods for me. Invaluable.

1. Modern wrestling kind of stinks when you put it that way.

2. I feel like what I've always been missing in my rants is a white board for crazy conspiracy theories. We should be able to upgrade the message board to implement one.

Funny, I've been thinking about the first point about athletics/strenght feats a lot lately the same way he does, meaning that pro-wrestling has never been more *real* than it is today, while at the same time never been so unrealistic. And that pro-wrestling becoming more real (which can be traced back to the garbage/hardcore scene and to a lesser extent to one japanese way of working really stiff) goes along with the fact it can't be *perceived as real* anymore because despite the suspension of disbelief, there's no real heat today (in Mexico maybe) and people really are onto the joke and really playing along. Even in NXT for instance, no one actually really hates Ciampa, everyone is very aware of their respective role in the broader sense, the audience is now playing along. Which wasn't the case at first, as the "smart" crowds were more inclined on shitting on babyfaces and chant "you fucked up" rather than playing the role they were supposed to play in a context when they couldn't *be* that role anymore.

 

So, the more real the athletic prowess gets, the more genuine the reactions are too, because no matter what we can say about some of those insane flippy sequences some of us hates so much, it is indeed incredible feats of athleticism you don't see anywhere else. That's why in a way, I find the idea of a "good wrestling crowd" being the one who plays along (cheers the babyfaces, boo the heels) kinda odd because it's not the most genuine wrestling crowd. In a way it's even more post-modern than the indy crowd who genuinely goes insane for crazy spotty shit. I'm not sure if working yourself up to the point you actually believe (or make-believe) you hate Ciampa is better than actually going insane for one of Ospreay vs Ricochet ridiculous-SFX looking sequence. There's something almost retromaniac about pretending you really hate a pro-wrestler in 2018.

 

So, pro-wrestling as figure skating anyone ?

I think that's part of why I like PWG so much now. The crowds feel genuine in their love of what they are watching. It doesn't feel like they are playing along, it feels like a bunch of people just having a good time watching wrestling together.

Even in NXT for instance, no one actually really hates Ciampa, everyone is very aware of their respective role in the broader sense, the audience is now playing along.

 

How do you figure? Nobody's going to pull a gun on him in the parking lot or anything like that, but the fans seem to be genuinely invested in seeing his character get his comeuppance. It's not like he's Elias and they're booing because it's fun to play along.

but the fans seem to be genuinely invested in seeing his character get his comeuppance.

 

That kind of wording says it all actually.

 

NXT is a "smarter" crowd than your average WWE crowd. They "invest in genuine, classic heel-face dynamic".

Is there a message board on the entire internet in which the word "comeuppance" is used more than it is here?

No. I also have never seen this word in any other context. And I have no idea how to pronounce it. "Getting his/her ass kicked" is easier to me.

What exactly is your point? That we should want fans to be too stupid or emotional to separate fantasy and reality?

Is there a message board on the entire internet in which the word "comeuppance" is used more than it is here?

I like it when Jerome gets his comeuppance.

What exactly is your point? That we should want fans to be too stupid or emotional to separate fantasy and reality?

 

I'm not wanting anything out of pro-wrestling crowds. But there's something interesting to me about the fact that what is *real* about pro-wrestling today is what resonnates with a particular kind of crowd, whose enjoyment and reactions can't be based on a predetermined role that they are supposed to fill simply because thet react mostly to that *real* element of modern pro-wrestling (as opposed to "investing emotions on a character"). A crowd that is mostly derired (including on this board) because they are a "bad crowd who only pop for spots and don't cheer babyfaces and boo heels". I don't pass judgement on either of them (and really, my particular taste in atmosphere makes me enjoy a boo-heel/cheer-faces crowd a lot more).

 

As far as "being too stupid or emotional", there's a can of worms to be opened there actually, going back to the "good old days" and the "southern territories" which were supposed to get the most heat. What consisted of the pro-wrestling crowds then, depending on the territories ? Was there a conscious notion that you would manipulate less educated people to get the most genuine reactions ? Why would the NY audience be considered "smarter" than say, the Tennessee one ? There's a class disdain issue buried somewhere… Also, were the genuine crowds of the 80's better because they woud chant "faggots" at effeminate workers, or chear Magnum TA when he would sexually assault Baby Doll and she would "like it !!!!!!!" ? Anyway, tons of questions there...

 

 

I like it when Jerome gets his comeuppance.

 

I don't sell shit.

There are some things I try not to complain about publicly for fear of being no fun. But I really really hate when people say "wrassling" or any variation there of. I can agree with everything else being said, see that and sour.

 

You must hate my posts then.

It bugs me a lot because it was coined to demean poor wrestling fans and the business in general. Look up how the term was created.

I feel like fans using that and "Fake Fighting" is just asinine. Some fans are so scared to admit they like wrestling so they have to demean wrestling, so we know they don't really like it.

Of all the horrible things wrestlers have done, for some reason finding out Mr. Wrestling II is a registered sex offender for taking part gang raping a 15 or 16 year old has me shook the most.

Sorry for being dense but where's the gang rape part? I see he had sex with a minor when he was 21, but that's as far as I can see it.

When Bix tweeted it out a while back, he found an old newspaper article from when it happened that stated he was one of several people convicted in an incident where they all had sex with with a girl under 16.

Is there a message board on the entire internet in which the word "comeuppance" is used more than it is here?

 

If there is then that word and Stephanie McMahon would never be in the same paragraph!

Of all the horrible things wrestlers have done, for some reason finding out Mr. Wrestling II is a registered sex offender for taking part gang raping a 15 or 16 year old has me shook the most.

 

Awful... That's the issue with older territory wrestler, they were a bunch of real lowlives in wrestling during that time...

Sorry for being dense but where's the gang rape part? I see he had sex with a minor when he was 21, but that's as far as I can see it.

Like what Sek said, the article has him as part of a group of guys charged with attacking a teenage girl: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/19212498/mr_wrestling_ii_johnny_walker_rape/

For those who wouldn't watch MLW:

 

 

 

But it's blocked in the UK. It's like MLW don't want me to see their shows!

 

 

So im slowly plowing through WWF in 2001 watching the weekly TV and PPV but now ive hit a roadblock because the last show I saw was Mania.

 

At the time I hated the Austin heel turn and still do now as im sure alot of others just wished McMahon had gotten stunnered at Mania. So do I bite my tongue and force myself to continue watching or do I just say screw it and go for a different year?

 

I say skip ahead and watch the month of Jericho and Benoit vs. Austin.

 

 

Ive decided to grudgingly go through it, not too impressed whats been going on Austin/Hunter getting the upper hand on every single TV taping and still go over on the PPV.

Is it known what the plans for the Brain Busters were going to be in the WWF, post November of '89? They taped the split from Heenan before they knew Tully was gonna be fired and there are a couple episodes of Prime Time where Monsoon and Piper talk about them positively, so I'm wondering if they were supposed to stay and be babyfaces, or if they were always going to leave regardless.