If that is the criteria than why isn't Everquest or SIMS in the top 10?  Where art thou PC games?

The editors may not have played those games much. They're not hiding the fact that the list is subjective.

 

Complaining of bias with a list like this makes no sense. I doubt EGM put SF II so high as part of an agenda. They just like it and played it a lot. Not exactly a surprising or controversal concept. SF II is one of the most beloved games in it's genre. Every game on the list is there because of "bias".

 

 

"Ok, MK2 may stink now--it doesn't stand the test of time like SFII does--but when it first came out, we were waiting in line at the arcades (and fighting for the SNES controllers) to play it.

 

Fair enough. MK II has not aged well at all.

 

 

 

My big disappointment is Street Fighter Alpha 2 being up there and not Street Fighter III 3rd Strike. I think Alpha 2 is a good game but not worthy of being in a greatest games list. 3rd Strike is the pinnacle of SF. A great mix of old school and modern gameplay and amazing animation. If any newer 2D fighter should be on the list I would wish it to be 3S. What's odd is that EGM was/is huge 3S fans. They actually had it as the best fighting game ever in another list a few years ago. I guess they have enough different editors that don't like it as much now.

 

 

Virtua Fighter did more than just polygons. It created the 3D fighting genre. It's not just a 2D fighter in 3D.

 

Mad Dog Mcgree? How many FMV games did you play last year? How many with polygons. Sega's Virtua games got the ball rolling. There's a good reason VF is in the Smithsonian museum.

If that is the criteria than why isn't Everquest or SIMS in the top 10?  Where art thou PC games?

The editors may not have played those games much. They're not hiding the fact that the list is subjective.

 

Complaining of bias with a list like this makes no sense. I doubt EGM put SF II so high as part of an agenda. They just like it and played it a lot. Not exactly a surprising or controversal concept. SF II is one of the most beloved games in it's genre. Every game on the list is there because of "bias".

Most of these are no-brainers.

 

The only ones we tend to complain about bias on are obvious outliers... Anything that makes me, a guy who's played every major system from the 2600 to the X-Box, say "WTF is that doing there?!?" is up to questioning.

 

 

 

In the case of some of it, it's just a "why this and not a comparable game?" questions.

 

In the case of the Virtua line, I ask why it's so big besides the fact that it contained polygons...

 

 

If this is list is based off of novelty value, maybe Sega's "Hologram" game or Mad Dog McCree should be on here.

Well it looks like my point was proven about the bias against MK.

 

I have MK2 as part of the Midway Arcade Treasures 2 pack, and I still play it. I wouldn't say it hasn't aged well. It doesn't stack up with current fighters, but then not much from 1993 compares well to 2006 games.

Well it looks like my point was proven about the bias against MK.

How so? What is biased against MK?

 

 

You just said it doesn't stack up against modern fighters. In other words.....it hasn't aged well.

Virtua Fighter did more than just polygons. It created the 3D fighting genre. It's not just a 2D fighter in 3D.

 

Mad Dog Mcgree? How many FMV games did you play last year? How many with polygons. Sega's Virtua games got the ball rolling. There's a good reason VF is in the Smithsonian museum.

Virtua Fighter shouldn't be taking up multiple slots on the list with crappy gameplay and graphics passed off as revolutionary.

 

 

The reason I brought up Mad Dog McCree and "Hologram" is that the two of them were very hot titles for a time and, in Mad Dog's case, spawned a lot of spinoffs like "Who Shot Johnny Rock" and "Last Bounty Hunter", which is still available today.

 

The titles are all derived from the Dragon's Lair formula, which is another game that was somewhat revolutionary but doesn't appear on this list.

 

 

 

 

The point being that polygons in and of themselves don't mean shit unless the game using them is worth it.

 

I'd argue that StarFox is worth it because I played it and enjoyed it compared to games at that time.

 

Virtua Fighter 1, while "revolutionary", didn't really hold up gameplay-wise against the Street Fighter and MK series.

 

 

Virtua Fighter 2 is an easier sell, as they'd worked out many of the gameplay quirks by then, but I'd still rather play Tekken, Soul Blade, Soul Calibur, etc. instead.

Well it looks like my point was proven about the bias against MK.

How so? What is biased against MK?

 

 

You just said it doesn't stack up against modern fighters. In other words.....it hasn't aged well.

And this rating list says "AS TO THEIR IMPORTANCE AT THE TIME OF THEIR RELEASE".

 

 

MK was HUGELY important to gaming at the time of its release, both positively and negatively, and its impact shouldn't be downplayed.

Comparing games released 13 years apart is such an apples and oranges situation it shouldn't have to be explained.

 

It's like comparing athletes from different eras, someone like Jack Lambert would get owned if he played today since everyone's bigger, badder, and stronger...but that doesn't mean he didn't whomp ass in the 70s.

I'd rather play Soulcalibur and Tekken too but VF should still get a lot of the credit for paving the way for those games.

 

But yeah VF1 is kind of lame. I doubt very much anyone at EGM actually played it much back then. They just like the series NOW.

That's why it's on the list. That's EGM's entire point. They're saying "yeah MK II is old and crappy now but it was great back in the day".

The point is that EGM is being internally inconsistent with their own rules.

 

 

VF1 wasn't too good back then, but it was influential. Doesn't mean that it deserves a Top 20 finish because they like Virtua Fighter 4.

 

 

By the rationale used above, I could say that the original Grand Theft Auto deserves a high place on the list despite the fact that it sucked.

 

The series didn't get good until it went fully 3D with GTA 3, so GTA 1, GTA: The UK Missions, and GTA 2 don't make the list IMHO.

That's not really a bias against MK though, it's a bias for VF. MK should not be higher because they went overboard with VF.

 

The only reason I'd still play MK II now is nostalgia. The gameplay is too slow, stiff and limited now. I don't think any of the MK games hold up.....and that's including Deception which just came out a few years ago. The series has always been way behind in gameplay.

Since we're all saying "omg, this isn't that great", I've been wondering if anyone here would be up for a roundtable on which games would be placed in a top 100 for NMB's listing of all-time great games. Each person can bring a list of 100-200 games and we'll go round the table and rap off 50 games from each list to great our "Greatest 100 List". I say 50, because honestly, duplicates happen. Anyone that doesn't get mentioned, doesn't make the list.

 

Also, I was thinking of the criteria we could make the for the List would be the following:

 

1) No game can be listed that hasn't at least been out for a year from when the lists were created. Reason being is that way we can get all the hype out of our systems and really stack them well.

 

2) Games will be ranked on the following 3 categories: how good they were at the time, how much of an impact they made on their respective genre, and how well they've aged over time. Not sure the point scoring method we'd use and how we'd balance it, but I think we can get something worked out. Preferably, I'd say a scoring of 50 points, with 25 going to how good they were at the time, 15 going to how much of an impact they've made to their genre, and 10 going to how well they've aged over time. But then again, that's just me, and I thought that up just now.

 

3) If no one at the table suggests a game, then the people who are on the board should realize that then this game shouldn't have made it. Honestly, if say 5 of us don't say it, then it wasn't worth it. So we should mention games that would honestly be worth it. Mentioning a game such as Paladin's Quest, would NOT be a good idea, since it didn't amount to much.

 

Or something like that... I have no idea why I just went off spouting this. Nevermind me.

However comments like " The only MK game that is playable is 2" piss me off cause it comes off like the person making the claim is the only one who can decide what's playable.

 

Hey man, I'm sorry. I'm one of the biggest Mortal Kombat fans on the planet. You should remember that just from our time at The Wall together. I played them all, when they came out, at the local arcades. I was an arcade hound. I rode the city bus to the mall on a daily basis so I could practice before the other people got there for the evening sessions. I didn't eat lunch at school so that I'd have more money at the end of the week for the arcade. I played in many Mortal Kombat 2 tournaments. To this day, I still play it on Midway Arcade Treasures (just like you) and I have all the moves memorized. In fact, I was playing it today against my friend Jeremy practicing for an upcoming event.

 

I played Mortal Kombat. I played Mortal Kombat 3. I played Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. I played Mortal Kombat Gold and Mortal Kombat 4 and every other abortion of the franchise. The block damage from combos was bad, at least to me. I didn't like how the characters, despite different names and colors, were basically the same thing. MK3 pushed it over the edge. I thought it was a little silly to have 3 "ninjas" in MK2...but it didn't start getting ridiculous until 3 with the robots and whatnot. I love MK but I'm not going to say that it's better or more groundbreaking or a bigger deal than the Street Fighter series because that's factually false.

 

I was trying to make the point that tournament wise, from a competitive standpoint, MK2 was the only game that most arcades, at least around here, would consider. In fact, I have an MK2 tournament on Feb. 3rd at the local gaming center. I plan on winning.

 

I didn't mean to piss anyone off.

 

I've been wondering if anyone here would be up for a roundtable on which games would be placed in a top 100 for NMB's listing of all-time great games.

That sound fun. Let's do it. I'm submitting Super Metroid, Final Fantasy III & The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past right now.

I have always liked 3 the most. I think MK is at it's best when it's goofy, over the top and cheesy. Stryker, Kabal, and the robots are all some of my favorite characters.

Since we're all saying "omg, this isn't that great", I've been wondering if anyone here would be up for a roundtable on which games would be placed in a top 100 for NMB's listing of all-time great games. Each person can bring a list of 100-200 games and we'll go round the table and rap off 50 games from each list to great our "Greatest 100 List". I say 50, because honestly, duplicates happen. Anyone that doesn't get mentioned, doesn't make the list.

I hate to say it but this board doesn't have the membership to come up with something that grand. Then there are gamers like me who like games that don't get alot of love in any circles... like Breath of Fire

Breath of Fire was a classic and I shall insist till the day I die that one of them should make the listings.

 

And it would be a roundtable, and thererfore, we'd only need 3-5 people for it. And I'm quite sure that the people in the round table would be responsible enough to grade a game appropriately.

There's not enough equal representation of genres. Just looking at this thread it'd be difficult to get a classic like SF II on the list I can't imagine trying to give a nod to 3rd Strike.

We could at least try.

There's not enough equal representation of genres. Just looking at this thread it'd be difficult to get a classic like SF II on the list I can't imagine trying to give a nod to 3rd Strike.

I'd vote in 3rd Strike. I'd also vote in SFII. I just said that I'd vote MK over SFII for what it did; however, with the way I thought up the voting power, it would go to SFII.

 

Just because there isn't "equal representation" of genres, doesn't mean someone isn't going to bust out some good ol' games. Hell, I'm making sure that the only RPGs I nominate are ones that I'm sure deserve to be on that listing. Considering that's like a total of 6 (maybe 7, I'm debating if I should add my last one), I hafta go out and find at least 44 more games to nominate. I'm going to scour ol' games I've played or forgot, like Paladin's Quest-I had stupid dreams about a God-like remake of it and I was playing it-before I'd make serious choices for my listing.

 

Besides, why not give it a shot and see? What's it gonna hurt?

Not saying it's not worth a shot or wouldn't be fun. Just thinking of things that could be a problem.

Then let's think of some good ways so there wouldn't be problems. I mean, if we know there are problems, let's lay them out, think of solutions, and then do the roundtable.

You know, I love RC Pro Am, and I've never even really played Chrono Trigger (I'm not much of an RPG fan), but there is no way the former should be ranked above the latter.

A Note on Zelda II from the issue. The EGM quote on the game talks about it being massivly under rated. I don't get that at all, since the game was pretty crappy from my vantage point.

 

I think EGM has a little too much love for past Nintendo and not nearly enough love for current Nintendo.

 

Tim

Yeah, the list just looks really really stupid. Zelda II wasn't underated. It was a pretty terrible game.

I've been working on my list for NMB for awhile now. I hope it comes to fruition. I'm not including arcade games; just console. So that means no P.C. games either. I won't be including imported games, else my list will be compromised of a ton of Sega Saturn fighters and wrestling games no one has played. I'm also only doing the Nintendo era up through the Playstation 2/X-Box/Gamecube era. The reason being that I was too young really for anything Atari or before and I've yet to play any 360 games. The hardest part isn't the end of the list or even the top of the list, it's the middle. The run-of-the-mill games that you know you have to include but you have to put into "favorite" order. I'm going to try to avoid putting clich? games on the list. Stuff the people always include that I just don't find fun. Like Tetris.

 

How many are we going to do? Top 100 or what? Top 50 would be hard enough.