So I went downtown today to do some job searching stuff. I took the bus since parking can be both inconvienient and expensive as hell. I took the bus for years, so it was no big deal.

 

Today was different.

 

On my bus ride home, there was a guy who appeared to be homeless passed out on the bus. Now, it's not like I've never seen homeless people before, but never out cold on the 67A. The bus was somewhat crowded considering it was almost the end of the work day, and when a line of people were filing out of the bus, an older woman who was well dressed tried to get the guy to wake up with no luck. She gave up trying to wake the guy and stuffed what appeared to be several dollar bills down the front of the zip-up painter style suit he had on over his clothes. I know she most likely had good intentions, but there was something so guy-in-a-titty-bar about how she did it, kind of creeped me out.

 

We were approaching the outskirts of downtown when another passenger told the driver that there was someone passed out on his bus. Rides between downtown stops are free, but once outside of that zone, the guy was going to have to pay so the driver wanted to get this guy off his bus. I honestly thought the guy might be dead since he wasn't responding to any attempt to wake him, but the overpowering smell of beer eminating from his person told the more likely scenario. The driver was eventually able to get him stirring, and the guy staggered off the bus, then sideways down the sidewalk.

 

It made me wonder, how did that guy end up passed out on the bus? Was he someone with mental problems? Was he just someone who's been kicked in the balls by life and ended up on the street? I know I'm a bleeding heart liberal and all that, but that combined with being engaged to someone with a Psychology degree made me wonder why we can't help guys like this better than we do. The cynic in me makes me think more isn't done since there's no profit to be made helping people who are destitute. Is there no place in society today for humans to help other humans for reasons other than the almighty dollar? I'm not naiive enough to believe that people would be willing to work for free, but when you're in a city like Pittsburgh where the largest employer is a health care provider, it kind of drives the point home that there's really more that could and should be done.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are services around here to help the less fortunate, but they're mostly just a place for them to come out of the cold or rain and maybe get a sandwich. Nobody really addresses the problems that landed them outdoors in the first place. Sometimes it seems like most people don't care. They either view them as people to be avoided like some sort of plague, or they ended up where they are due to poor choices they may have made in life. Even if that's true, does that justify giving up on them when but for the grace of whatever you believe in it could be you or me out there?

 

It just seems like there should be a way for people who need help that's better than getting shitfaced and ending up passed out on the bus.

I think most of society have no pity because few save those who have endured it can understand what it is like and how devastating things usually have to be to lead to someone being little more than a bum passing out on buses and asking for change off strangers. A perfect example would be the lady who stuffed the money in his pocket. The guy doesn't need money, he obviously needs some serious help and if anything she's probably paid for his next bottle of booze to further kill his kidneys and leave him unconscious.

I know this sounds harsh, because I'm usually compassionate to a fault, but the solution is simple:

 

(1) Sober up.

(2) Get a job.

 

I would imagine there are homeless shelters everywhere where he can go, get a shower, and he can use that money he spent on liquor to go to Kinko's and type a resume. I've done everything from dig ditches to wear a cell phone suit in front of a mall kiosk when I had no choice and had to make ends meet. There's always a way. One side of me says that no one in a country like America should ever be homeless. But homeless people drinking ... that just comes down to personal responsibility. It would be different if he was sober and starving, or on the bus to stay warm or whatever.

 

The question always posed on getting a job is, "How does a homeless person get a job?" The answer is that the employer doesn't have to know they're homeless. You can get a post office box for the price of a bottle of malt liquor.

 

I agree that stuffing money down his clothes is a little weird, but why should anyone treat the guy with respect if he can't even respect himself enough to not pass out shitfaced on a public bus? She obviously felt for him and wanted to help.

People have to want to be helped for it to happen. The guy has a lot of resources to get back on track. Shelters where he can get a shower and better clothes so he can get a job. You can only do so much for a person. Ultimately they have to pull themselves out of their situation. Sometimes by helping you actually keep a person stuck in their current situation.

 

Though I don't think people should give them money. If the guy reeks of beer then ultimately you're just enabling his behavior. If you know he's going to spend it on booze or drugs then don't give them money. Donate it to a homeless shelter or something else that indirectly helps.

I know this sounds harsh, because I'm usually compassionate to a fault, but the solution is simple:

 

(1) Sober up.

(2) Get a job.

 

I would imagine there are homeless shelters everywhere where he can go, get a shower, and he can use that money he spent on liquor to go to Kinko's and type a resume. I've done everything from dig ditches to wear a cell phone suit in front of a mall kiosk when I had no choice and had to make ends meet. There's always a way. One side of me says that no one in a country like America should ever be homeless. But homeless people drinking ... that just comes down to personal responsibility. It would be different if he was sober and starving, or on the bus to stay warm or whatever.

 

The question always posed on getting a job is, "How does a homeless person get a job?" The answer is that the employer doesn't have to know they're homeless. You can get a post office box for the price of a bottle of malt liquor.

 

I agree that stuffing money down his clothes is a little weird, but why should anyone treat the guy with respect if he can't even respect himself enough to not pass out shitfaced on a public bus? She obviously felt for him and wanted to help.

Sometimes it is not as easy as that though. I'm sure TTK could attest to that given his experiences. Most people that are homeless aren't as a result of simply being irresponsible, generally conditions have been such that they've either had to leave their home, lost it, or got so fucked up they just had their lives fall apart and ended up with nowhere and no one to turn to. Getting a job wouldn't do anything but give them more money to continue their self destructive trip, most of these people need a shit load of help, attention and work to get back on their feet and don't have it in them to do it alone.

 

As for no one in a developed country such as America should be unemployed or homeless, I think to an extent while that is fair people get laid off every day and entire workforces are left without work due to many companies outsourcing work to Asia since it is much cheaper. While you've obviously been able to get back on the grind with minumum fuss others lose their job, some weeks before retirement as cost cutting measure to benefit the company, and literally have their lives shatter since work was all they had anyway. I think most homeless people turn to booze or drugs to escape the fact they are who they are and are where they are, so it's kind of a vicious circle since they are so fucked up they don't know what to do so they turn to drugs for comfort since few else will provide anything save the money to get fucked up.

Actually most homeless people I've come across, and I got to know quite a few when I'd walk around downtown, have some sort of mental disability. A lot of them drink and/or do drugs as a way of self-medicating the voices to go away.

Sometimes it is not as easy as that though. I'm sure TTK could attest to that given his experiences.

Which, my experiences as a Social Worker, or as a mentally ill homeless person?

 

I have worked with the homeless to a degree, and one of my closest friends who works in Social Services works for the City of Toronto as a Social Worker with the homeless. (For the record, she's also HOT...but that has nothing to do with this conversation.) Also, one of my other close personal friends actually lived for years as a street person. I've known him since High School, and stayed in touch with him during his years on the street, and I saw and heard some amazing things through him.

 

Homelessness is a complex issue.

 

Firstly, it's incredible to see how many people who are homeless are mentally ill. You really need to understand and accept that fact before you even look at the issue of homelessness.

 

The most conservative (not politically conservative I mean the best case) scenarios I've seen claim that around 60% of the homeless in Toronto suffer from some form of mental illness. There are some who say that the percentage of homeless people who suffer from either mental illness or serious substance abuse problems is as high as 75%. I don't know if this is true. It probably isn't, but it wouldn't shock me if it were true.

 

The most common mental illness that homeless people suffer from is schizophrenia. I myself have worked with people who suffer from schizophrenia and it is a truly tragic disorder. After 16 years working with people, I have become bitter and jaded as they come, but there are still certain cases that get to me on an emotional level, and schizophrenic people is one of them.

 

Think about it. We all, every one of us depend on our minds...our own senses. We feel confident that when we think it's dark, it's dark, when we think it's cold, it's cold etc. We don't even second guess our own minds; we just take it for granted that what we see and hear is real. Unless you're taking some kind of hallucinogen, you can always rely on your own mind, your own perception of things.

 

How terrifying would it be if you couldn't? How would you feel if you saw and heard things that were SO real to you, that you KNEW were there, but nobody else could see or hear them? How frightening would that be?

 

So many homeless people I have seen that suffer from schizophrenia are also substance abusers. I used to look down on that, but I don't always now. I now understand that many people who suffer from schizophrenia self medicate. They drown their sorrows in booze to drown out the voices, to kill the pain.

 

Of course, there are medications for schizophrenia. The problem is, that they really aren't all that good and the side effects are said to be horrific. I have been told that if you're LUCKY all that happens is that your mouth is always dry, you're constipated, you feel exhausted all the time, and you're never hungry. Oh yeah, and you can't have sex because medications like Clozaril, Risperdal, Seroquel and Zyprexa kill your sex drive.

 

That's not even mentioning the fact that many if not all serious medications that treat schizophrenia also cause Dyskinesia. That would be the involuntary muscle spasms and facial tics you get when you take the meds. Is it any wonder that many people who suffer from this disorder don't want to take their medication? I've been told by some of them that it's not even like living; it's like going through life like a zombie.

 

If you have Schizophrenia, and you do or don't take medication, the odds of you being able to hold down a job are pretty much NIL. If you're hearing voices, you're not going to be a real productive employee. Ditto if you're in a constant haze and under heavy sedation.

 

So no job, and a mental illness. Where will you end up? On the streets.

 

There are programs out there for street people. I know it, I've seen it. There really are beds, at least in Toronto. There is never an "excuse" for somebody having to sleep in the cold, or on the actual street, because yes...there are shelters and there are soup kitchens. My friend lived in many shelters, and he never went hungry.

 

The problem is, that the system tends to treat the symptoms, not the disease. We make sure that these people have a bed...but not a home. We make sure they're fed on a daily basis (assuming they aren't paranoid and afraid to come in and get fed) but we don't think to set them up with programs that will help them feed themselves.

 

Here is where we get into the endless debate. Many people in Social Services feel that they must treat Street People like charity cases. Hand them everything, and make them dependant on the city, province or country (or in your case I suppose, on the State) in order to live. Many people feel that simply meeting the daily needs of the homeless is enough.

 

The other side is the type of person who wants to tackle the problem on an administrative level. They want workplace programs, housing programs, etc. The whole "give a man a fish and you feed him once, teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." There is some merit to this argument. I'm all about self reliance, doing for ones self and being independent, but it doesn't help much when you think the fish is talking to you, or worse talking ABOUT you behind your back.

 

I've had arguments with some so-called "liberals" who don't see that they are encouraging reliance on the system by failing to look at the issue from the big picture. I've had arguments with some so-called conservatives who think that so long as their tax dollars are being used on shelters and work, then it's up to homeless people to grab themselves by the bootstraps and pull themselves out of the gutter, dammit.

 

Like everything else in life...it's not that simple. People who are mentally ill need to be in treatment homes. Once in these homes we need to dedicate time and funds to helping them learn to live with their disease, and on a higher level, finding medication that makes living with it easier. If there was a person lying in the middle of the street who was dying of cancer, we would take them to the hospital and make sure they got treatment. But many times when we see somebody who is lying there who is suffering from a mental disorder, we step over them and ignore them, because it frightens us.

 

I need to make this point clear. I don't think society truly understands just how many homeless people suffer from mental illness. I KNOW that in Toronto at least, there are not enough programs to treat people with mental illness. The mentally ill make this hard, because in many cases they don't realize or understand that they are ill, or they are scared of help, so they will not consent to treatment. Mental illness is not a "popular" disorder to get funding for, like cancer or AIDS. People who have those diseases WANT to be treated. Many mentally ill people DON'T. This is where competency hearings and the like come in. I have seen SO many battles over if a person is capable of consenting to their own treatment. These battles are costly, trying, and usually neither side really "wins" so the way society tends to deal with it is to ignore it and hope it goes away.

 

Most homeless suffer from mental illness and there are no easy answers for that.

 

So lets say that we got all of the people who suffer from mental illness, schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, etc off the streets, and into hospital and treatment homes that could help them. Where would that leave us.

 

Maybe half of our remaining homeless or maybe more would be left. Who are these people? I'd say at least half of the remainder are your garden variety substance abusers. Alcoholics, crack addicts, heroin shooters, meth heads, hell...I worked with a guy who was a percocet addict. When you have a major substance abuse problem, it costs money. You can't keep a job because you end up fucked up on something, and then you end up on the streets.

 

Here is where we get into the question...is addiction an illness, or a personal choice? I have no idea. I'm a drunk, and I still can't say 100% if my head is wired differently from other people, or if I just like being drunk. So if it is an illness, can it be treated? Would substance abusers take it? Maybe, but I doubt it to be honest.

 

We have all heard the clich? about hitting rock bottom and helping yourself. That much I KNOW is true. You can offer people who have substance abuse issues help, but until they are ready for help, and want it, you may as well be pissing in the wind. And a whole lot of what I have seen is pissing in the wind. Many Social Service workers try and FORCE help onto substance abusers. That's just plain old dumb.

 

Now...having said that...the help should be there when they want it. This I feel qualified to talk about, since I ran a home for runaway kids and hookers, etc. When they wanted help, it was my job to make sure they got it. Sadly, for whatever reason, some don't want it.

 

Some street people feel very comfortable in their cycle of dependency. Being high is fun. Being drunk is fun. Knowing that there are plenty of people out there who will give you free food and a place to sleep is easy. Kicking drugs is hard. Working is hard. So yes, in one sense some street people do "choose" to be street people, because if they have a substance abuse problem they choose not to deal with it.

 

So...let's say that 50% are mentally ill. 25% are substance abusers. Who are the other 25%? These are usually poor people, uneducated people, people who grew up on the streets, or come from an environment where poverty is such that living this way is acceptable to them. Or, in order for them to get out of this, they would have to be educated and trained.

 

Once again, this opens a political debate. Who is responsible for these people? Are they responsible for themselves? Are we as a society responsible for helping them? Should our tax dollars be used to help them?

 

I don't know the answer to any of those questions. All I do know is that from my experience, the system is set up to encourage dependence, not empowerment. There are also some people out there who plain old don't want any damn help. There really ARE a small percentage of homeless people who have checked out of society as we know it, and live in some other strange world where the rules don't apply.

 

So yeah I guess my point if I had one is this. I think a large amount of homeless people are people with mental illness, who need treatment, but don't get it because sometimes the funds aren't there, and sometimes they don't want it, because the nature of their illness keeps them from being able to make that decision. Some homeless people are substance abusers who don't want treatment, or aren't at that point yet. And some are just poor people who either don't have the education to get a job that will keep them off the street, or in some cases, don't want it.

 

And I don't think the system is doing a good job at meeting these needs...but I also don't think this is a black and white issue and there are no easy answers in dealing with the issue.

A wiser man than me once said you can judge a society by how it treats the weakest members. I think that's a pretty accurate statement.

 

Dave touched on a point that most people aren't even aware of. It's almost better to have something like AIDS or cancer than mental illness because at least people are trying to find cures and treatments for those. When you have a mental illness, you're lucky if you get treatment, then you're lucky if that treatment isn't worse than whatever illness you have.

 

Too many people think they're doing their part when they give Crazy Bob a few dollars while on the way to work in the morning. To really make a difference would probably require more money spent towards the mentally ill than some folks would feel is "worth it".

The problem is that some people just give some guy a couple of bucks to make themselves feel better. It really doesn't have a lot to do with actually helping someone.

 

I remember during my freshman year of college I'd drive by the same homeless guy every morning. At first you kind of feel bad but after the second week you start to wonder why the guy can't work yet he can show up to the same street corner everyday at the same time and beg for food.

Dave touched on a point that most people aren't even aware of. It's almost better to have something like AIDS or cancer than mental illness because at least people are trying to find cures and treatments for those. When you have a mental illness, you're lucky if you get treatment, then you're lucky if that treatment isn't worse than whatever illness you have.

The older I get and the more experience in Social Services I get, the more I realize that Mental Illness is such a tragic disease because so many people refuse to see it as a disease at all. There are so many people who look at serious depression, or bi-polar disorder and think that the people need to just "cheer up" or go for a walk. People who suffer from mental illnesses truly are stigmatized.

 

Either we don't even want to acknowledge that what they have is really an illness, and try and pretend that their behavior is somehow their fault or by choice...or we downplay it and mock it. I've been just as guilty as anybody of making jokes at the expense of people who are mentally ill...think about how often we throw around the insult "crazy" or "whacko" or "nuts." I don't make fun of people with Cancer or AIDS, but it seems acceptable in society to laugh at the mentally ill, when they suffer terribly due to their affliction.

 

There is so much science doesn't understand about the human brain, and it's everyday functions. You ever see that movie "Regarding Henry?" Check this out. I used to work with a dude who one day got into a MASSIVE car accident. He hit some ice, wrapped his car around a telephone pole, and ended up in a coma.

 

When he woke up, he had total amnesia. He didn't remember anything from his past. He also had to be retrained how to write...and when he did, he became a left hander, whereas before his accident he was right handed. His hand writing was TOTALLY different...but he has no actual damage to his arms. It had been a head injury.

 

The doctors said that there is a theory that we only use about 95% of our brains, and the rest are backup systems, so that if we suffer brain damage, the brain can "reboot." This is why his brain turned him into a left hander. His memory, and the part of his brain that made him right handed was wiped out.

 

It has often made we wonder, if only we could somehow reroute the parts of the brain that cause schizophrenia, could we help these people? Look at the advancements that have been made during my lifetime alone in the area of treating depression.

 

Depression used to be treated by sedation up until the 70's. Then, (by accident when they were looking for a cure for epilepsy) the effects of serotonin on the human brain was discovered, and a whole new type of antidepressants were created. (We can save the debate about that whole issue for another thread.)

 

What if science could discover the chemical imbalance that causes schizophrenia? They are already finding connections between serotonin imbalance and schizoid disorders. If we put as much effort into solving these medical problems as we did other diseases, I really feel that this alone could put a HUGE dent in the homeless problem.

 

Unfortunately, we seem to be stuck in this mentality (pardon the pun) that people who suffer from mental illness brought it on themselves, or could equally fix it themselves by a simple thinking adjustment. I am a Cognitive Behavioral therapist, and believe me when I tell you...you can't simply "decide" not to be mentally ill.

 

If only it were that easy.

It's handy having you around for these moralistic/socially relevant threads at times, Dave.

 

As you and Sek mentioned, there is not much sympathy or understanding given to those with mental or social disorders. I think it's partly because it is not tangible, it's not something you catch or contract, it's just something that happens. I myself suffer from depression and stress related anxiety but neither my brother or father understand and I get told "get a job, you'll be fine" "get over, it, there's nothing wrong with you." As if when I was working I was not having to deal with crap which I did get over on a daily basis to finish work. However my doctor and counsellor are for more educated and qualified in regards to the matter so unsurprisingly I sought help when I felt I needed it rather than sit around feeling trapped and down while receiving little support or understanding. Since getting help I've feel I've made a lot of progress and even now while neither of the people I live with takes my condition or treatment seriously and issue the same stock advice, I know I am getting better. I used to be a lot like those Dave cited, just saying "depression is the name adult teenage angst", "life's may be hard, it's fairly cut and dry, roll with the punches and deal with it" but now I've on the inside looking out it's quite different.

 

I had a chat with a buddy of mine today over breakfast and he told me an interesting anecdote about his recent work. He has recently been doing some social work and encountered a Greek businessman who literally lost his wife, house, kids, business, income and savings in a few months as a result of his wife's decision to leave him. The guy just fell to pieces as the life he had worked so hard to provide for his wife and kids, all of that, had meant nothing as she'd been fucking around on him despite his efforts to be a good husband, father and provider. He became emotionall distraught, missed business meetings due to divorce proceedings and got blackballed by old partners who felt he'd lost his edge and went elsewhere. He was losing money within weeks which caused him to start drinking, then he was bankrupt within a couple of months. He ended up losing pretty much everything to his wife and liquidators and had a breakdown. He lost his home to his wife and was denied access to his kids because she used his inability to maintain his lifestyle after she admitted to fucking around on him as proof of his unstable condition. When it was all over, he was homeless, penniless and brokenhearted, unable to see his children. He spent over a year on the streets just getting by. One day he found his way into a homeless shelter and basically begged them to let him stay so as a result of that they took him in, cleaned him up, sorted him with a council flat, got him some counselling and a part time job pricing items in a Indian food store. These days he's making progress but this is just one example where someone through no fault of their own, but as a result of personal and environmental pressures and actions, fell apart and ended up homeless with no hope. Would sobering him up and telling him to get a job have worked when he was at the bottom? I don't think so.

I'm mostly disgusted at the man's wife. You cause the man's life to fall apart mentally and emotionally, so you take his shelter and material possessions? I guess she just wanted a clean sweep. Probably living completely guilt free, too.

 

 

Great thread. Dave's taught me a lot here.

I'm mostly disgusted at the man's wife. You cause the man's life to fall apart mentally and emotionally, so you take his shelter and material possessions? I guess she just wanted a clean sweep. Probably living completely guilt free, too.

 

 

Great thread. Dave's taught me a lot here.

Two creeds that generally ring true:

 

Never undestimate a man's greed. Never underestimate a woman's spite.

 

The guy did basically get his life flushed by his ex-wife but that's how it went down. You're right, she lives guilt free as far as I know. No clue if she even lets the guy see his kids.

Fun Fact: One reason I'm my mom's only child is because they couldn't afford more than one kid after my dad's ex-wife (with the help of a friend of hers in the court system) bent him over for child support. They based it on his income at the time of their divorce, and you probably know the late 70s-early 80s is when the steel industry collapsed here in the Rust Belt. You think the courts would take into account that his income dropped by almost half? Why that's crazy talk.