Posted January 29, 20187 yr comment_5830330 So this has been talked about for awhile, at first with ESPN as part of their 30 For 30 series, but switched over to HBO when Bill Simmons left. HBO Sports have made some amazing documentaries over the years, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how they do this, their first full-length doc on professional wrestling. Andre was given the A&E Biography treatment in the late 90's, and while it gave some glimpse into the man inside, I expect (especially given the crazy amount of access given to Simmons and the director by WWE and research gone into it) this to go much deeper. Deeper perhaps on a personal level, but I also expect this to do what the Flair doc did to a degree which was make something for the HBO audience as much as the WWE (or long-time wrestling) fans.
January 29, 20187 yr comment_5830358 I worry about the degree to which it will be co-opted by WWE. But I guess they had to be onboard for footage/access reasons. Also skeptical of anything in which Shoemaker is treated as a wrestling expert. But I hope they nail it.
January 29, 20187 yr comment_5830390 I thought the trailer looked amazing and am really looking forward to this.
January 29, 20187 yr comment_5830391 I worry about the degree to which it will be co-opted by WWE. But I guess they had to be onboard for footage/access reasons. Also skeptical of anything in which Shoemaker is treated as a wrestling expert. But I hope they nail it. If they claim that Hogan, at WMIII, was the first to slam Andre, it will kill the whole thing for me regardless of how good the rest of it is.
January 29, 20187 yr Author comment_5830392 To hear Liev Schreiber talk about WrestleMania like it was the World Series or Super Bowl in the voiceover will be well worth it for me.
January 29, 20187 yr comment_5830471 I dont have HBO so hopefully this winds up on dvd or the network.
March 1, 20187 yr comment_5833971 To be honest, I was kinda iffy about the doc after the teaser and trailer. It seemed it was going to be a cool film that didn't have much stuff we didn't already know (similar to the Flair 30 for 30). And with Bill Simmons hyping up Shoemaker as a major player in this, I wasn't that excited. But Simmons had the Masked Man on his podcast on Monday and they completely sold me on it. Shoemaker even admitted his book had mistakes - first time I'm hearing him admit that - and that the director just didn't let anything like that happen in his movie. Seems Andre will truly get the HBO quality treatment.
March 9, 20187 yr comment_5835031 How the fuck did he fit in that 4L ?!! (that's the car you see a 1:25) I look forward to this.Also, Grenoble "in the French Alps" is quite a cool little city.
March 25, 20187 yr comment_5837446 For a complete match it must be. That's very cool. Is this something new to surface or has it been out there before?
March 25, 20187 yr comment_5837457 Appeared yesterday on my YouTube feed, hoping more is uploaded soon. This is also is on there, just two years apart and you can see the change in Andre's appearance
March 25, 20187 yr comment_5837458 I don't have the language skills to do much with this, but someone (jetlag?) should look at what's available for ina.fr on the premium section and whether or not it's more readily out there. I realize this is sort of a "low hanging fruit" thing relatively but who knows, right? It looks like there are at least 3-4 large chunks (40 mins) from the 60s. http://www.ina.fr/premium/sport/autres-sports
March 25, 20187 yr comment_5837460 Well, this guy was breaking kayfabe in 1960 : http://www.ina.fr/video/CAF90023807/la-minute-de-verite-d-un-catcheur-video.html Tells pretty much everything about it (the only stuff that's not credible is when he says 50% of the matches actually turn into real fights because guys don't work well together). His conclusion is that it doesn't matter anyway because even as a worker who knows everything about the tricks, he still can really get into it like he would at a movie or a play. Yep. 1960.
March 25, 20187 yr comment_5837463 I don't have the language skills to do much with this, but someone (jetlag?) should look at what's available for ina.fr on the premium section and whether or not it's more readily out there. I realize this is sort of a "low hanging fruit" thing relatively but who knows, right? It looks like there are at least 3-4 large chunks (40 mins) from the 60s. http://www.ina.fr/premium/sport/autres-sports Actually most of this stuff has been made avialable before. Since that Andre stuff isn't on the website I assume the guy uploading this stuff must have worked some serious voodoo magic to obtain it from the archive. There is a bit of talk about the french footage and the difficulty in getting it from the archive in the french catch thread. Slightly off topic, but what the hell is up with video archives not wanting to give out ancient wrestling footage? I contacted an austrian archive about video footage from Graz they supposedly had and they didn't even bother to respond further. Atleast we got all the Chicago archive stuff.
March 25, 20187 yr comment_5837468 I don't have the language skills to do much with this, but someone (jetlag?) should look at what's available for ina.fr on the premium section and whether or not it's more readily out there. I realize this is sort of a "low hanging fruit" thing relatively but who knows, right? It looks like there are at least 3-4 large chunks (40 mins) from the 60s. http://www.ina.fr/premium/sport/autres-sports Those matches are on Youtube (Bob ALPRA's channel) : 1965 02 28 Gilbert Cesca et René Ben Chemoul vs. The Black Diamonds (Peter Ginsberg et John Foley) 1965 03 12 PEROU CONTRE FRANCE 1967 05 06 Bruno Asquini et Gilbert Leduc vs. Les Blousons Noirs (Claude Gessat et Marcel Mannevau) Four matches I don't think were on Youtube Anton Tejero vs. Walter Bordes (1967/08/12) Michel SAULNIER (27 ans) vs. Petit Prince (24 ans) - BATMAN vs. Teddy BOY (1967/09/30) Jean Corne vs. Jacky Richard - the ring is in a filled swimming pool ! (1977/08/07)
March 27, 20187 yr Author comment_5837682 Brian Koppelman, one of the creators of Showtime's Billions (and director of the Jimmy Connors 30 For 30, which I liked quite a lot) was on Simmons' podcast last week and talked about the doc. He was shown the final cut and sang it's praises pretty high. It's clear going into this that this is almost as much about the death of the territories as is about Andre, which makes me doubly fascinated in this. Koppelman said he wants to create a show about that period of time, and went as far as actually having a meeting with Vince (he says in the doc this is the most human he has ever seen Vince, BTW) about it.
April 5, 20187 yr comment_5839256 Meltzer gave the doc a positive review overall but poked some holes in the Shoemaker-narrated history of the territories and WWF expansion. Which feeds into a lot of my reservations. Anytime I listen to Simmons or Shoemaker discuss wrestling history, it's so obvious they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. So I'm sure the core story of the doc will work, but I suspect it will be a little more frustrating for hardcore fans than for casuals. Of course, that's pretty much always the case with something like this.
April 6, 20187 yr comment_5839401 So I'm sure the core story of the doc will work, but I suspect it will be a little more frustrating for hardcore fans than for casuals. Of course, that's pretty much always the case with something like this. Exactly. At this point, it bothers me more that I know people that don't watch wrestling or know anything about it that will watch this and see the presentation of how things evolved and have no idea what the mistakes/falsehoods are. And though as non-fans they won't absorb it, when you hear the same narratives over and over... It's minor at this point in my own viewing, I know history is written by the victors. Hopefully it's not that bad.
April 6, 20187 yr comment_5839402 Meltzer gave the doc a positive review overall but poked some holes in the Shoemaker-narrated history of the territories and WWF expansion. Which feeds into a lot of my reservations. Anytime I listen to Simmons or Shoemaker discuss wrestling history, it's so obvious they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. So I'm sure the core story of the doc will work, but I suspect it will be a little more frustrating for hardcore fans than for casuals. Of course, that's pretty much always the case with something like this. Where did this Shoemaker guy emerge from? I know he's been around for years now but it seems like he had a few years of relevance in like 2013 then faded away again.
April 6, 20187 yr comment_5839434 Meltzer gave the doc a positive review overall but poked some holes in the Shoemaker-narrated history of the territories and WWF expansion. Which feeds into a lot of my reservations. Anytime I listen to Simmons or Shoemaker discuss wrestling history, it's so obvious they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. So I'm sure the core story of the doc will work, but I suspect it will be a little more frustrating for hardcore fans than for casuals. Of course, that's pretty much always the case with something like this. Where did this Shoemaker guy emerge from? I know he's been around for years now but it seems like he had a few years of relevance in like 2013 then faded away again. He started writing wrestling columns for Deadspin under a pseudonym, and Simmons hired him to write for Grantland. Since then he's become one of Bill's guys - Shoemaker works for Simmons' site The Ringer as an editor of some kind in addition to his writing. It's a shame he's so ignorant of non-WWE approved history as (IMO, of course) he's a very good writer.
April 10, 20187 yr comment_5841634 Not sure why but I thought this premiered on the 15th but it airs tonight on HBO Canada at 10 pm.Same in the U.S. I assume?
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