Posted April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842415 This was brought up a bit in the Meltzer thread so I thought it might be interesting to talk about. What do you think is the most overrated match that's been given the full 5 stars by Dave? To make this less obvious, none of the 6 or 5.75 matches count. I personally would say either Tiger Mask-Dynamite Kid or Cole/Bucks-Ospreay/Ricochet/Sydal. Tiger-Dynamite was certainly a revolutionary match for its time, but I think it's aged rather poorly. It just doesn't measure up to the later high-flying showcases of guys like Mysterio or Liger. I would think that a match rated 5 stars should be timeless, something you could watch years, even decades later and still enjoy The non-finishes also don't help. The PWG 6-man tag is an entertaining enough spotfest, but nothing you've probably never seen before on a typical PWG card. There's also too much "cuteness" that gets in the way of the more impressive feats of athleticism.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842416 There are a few good Tiger Mask-Dynamite Kid matches, but certainly not the one from 83. It's boring and sloppy and breaks down in the middle with the finish being a severe head-scratcher. This almost positively runs away with the award for most overrated 5 star match.
April 13, 20187 yr Author comment_5842417 I forget which one it was, but I do recall there was an earlier one that was much better.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842419 I'll stick to my original pick: I rarely ever agree with his opinion so it doesn't really matter to me (I'd most likely rate a ton of old W*ING bloody brawls and Teddy Hart and Homicide JAPW matches where they fish hook and punch each other in the mouth *****), but yeah, that match is pretty average.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842421 I forgot that one got 5 stars. Yeah, totally WTF choice even back then. Like I said in the original thread from which this one is derived, the ladder match at Takeover appears to me as the most overrated 5 stars Meltz match ever, since to me it was complete junk. Haven't rewatch the Tiger vs Dyno match in forever. It's overrated, but it's still good. I'm sure some indy clusterfucks that got the 5 stars treatment are up there.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842424 There are a few matches that I think he gave five that I think are not just overrated but absolutely awful: kyoko Inoue vs manami toyota from may 1995 the 60 minute match, i watched it once several years ago and it is right up there as maybe the match i want to see again least. Davey Richards vs Micheal elgin golden lovers vs young bucks, ospreay vs kushida from botsj last year then there are a few matches that i don't think were awful but were certainly no way near ***** Okada vs tanahashi from wk 10 which has a truly woeful performance from okada in which he has his leg worked on for the majority of the match only to no sell it completely by making a comeback consisting of nothing but running dropkicks and then a coast to coast dropkick and from then on he does not sell it apart the most lazy of selling hitting his leg a bit every-so often before doing a running move. However he even manages to fuck up this excuse for selling as he starts hitting THE WRONG LEG not the one that had been worked over. Add to that his usual boring work on top, shit offense and lack of fire in anything and you have one of the worst "great match" performances I have ever seen. Tana works like a man possessed in the match bumping like mad and trying to put okada over as much as he can but it really still sucks. Honma vs ishii from 2015 it was really boring repetitive crap. And the aforementioned ladder match from nxt
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842432 Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi. I know people still love that, and I remember it being a huge fucking deal at the time - and it still is, when you think about it - but I wouldn't rank it *that* high. Joe cosplaying as a 90s AJPW wrestler is fun and all, but it kinda made him look a little bit like a geek.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842434 Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi. I know people still love that, and I remember it being a huge fucking deal at the time - and it still is, when you think about it - but I wouldn't rank it *that* high. Joe cosplaying as a 90s AJPW wrestler is fun and all, but it kinda made him look a little bit like a geek. This was my original thought the first time around. I thought it was a great way to introduce newer fans to Japanese pro-wrestling and that it wasn't that great. I re-watched it a month ago and I totally lost it. I thought it was unbelievable.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842435 Why the hype about Big Dave here? Haven't plenty of folks who use stars thrown a lot at what many here or elsewhere would consider questionable matches?
April 13, 20187 yr Author comment_5842436 I just figured most folks are familiar with Dave's ratings than anyone else's. However, if there are any other over-hyped matches not rated 5 by Dave we can discuss those too.
April 13, 20187 yr Author comment_5842437 Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi. I know people still love that, and I remember it being a huge fucking deal at the time - and it still is, when you think about it - but I wouldn't rank it *that* high. Joe cosplaying as a 90s AJPW wrestler is fun and all, but it kinda made him look a little bit like a geek. It's an awesome spectacle of a match, but it is a bit silly how many chops they do (and this is coming from someone who loves even NOAH-era Kobashi).
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842438 Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi. I know people still love that, and I remember it being a huge fucking deal at the time - and it still is, when you think about it - but I wouldn't rank it *that* high. Joe cosplaying as a 90s AJPW wrestler is fun and all, but it kinda made him look a little bit like a geek. This was my original thought the first time around. I thought it was a great way to introduce newer fans to Japanese pro-wrestling and that it wasn't that great. I re-watched it a month ago and I totally lost it. I thought it was unbelievable. That's also exactly what I thought when I watched it back then. It was also the first time I saw Joe, so probably not the best introduction. Now that I'm familiar through years of TNA, I wonder if my perception would be different too... Don't give me the urge to go through these "5 stars" matches for the sake of it...
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842439 Why the hype about Big Dave here? Haven't plenty of folks who use stars thrown a lot at what many here or elsewhere would consider questionable matches? The thread was derived from me saying the ladder match at Takeover was the most overrated 5 stars match from Meltz canon.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842440 I still love Joe/Kobashi and every time I think I might be too high on it and watch it again I am pretty convinced its amazing all over again. Why the hype about Big Dave here? Haven't plenty of folks who use stars thrown a lot at what many here or elsewhere would consider questionable matches? Every god damned time he throws five at something I feel like some pocket of the internet gets riled up. His stars seem to be the only ones that matter beyond just quantifying one person's opinion (which is what stars are and should be). I get it. It is used as a standard on sites like cagematch. When people say a match "got 5 stars" they typically mean Dave doled em out. Otherwise they say "I gave...". It also gives all the people who hate star ratings a chance to let everyone know that they are "against it" and talk shit on the practice.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842441 Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi. I know people still love that, and I remember it being a huge fucking deal at the time - and it still is, when you think about it - but I wouldn't rank it *that* high. Joe cosplaying as a 90s AJPW wrestler is fun and all, but it kinda made him look a little bit like a geek. It's an awesome spectacle of a match, but it is a bit silly how many chops they do (and this is coming from someone who loves even NOAH-era Kobashi). You must really hate Kobashi vs. Kensuke...
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842443 Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi. I know people still love that, and I remember it being a huge fucking deal at the time - and it still is, when you think about it - but I wouldn't rank it *that* high. Joe cosplaying as a 90s AJPW wrestler is fun and all, but it kinda made him look a little bit like a geek. This was my original thought the first time around. I thought it was a great way to introduce newer fans to Japanese pro-wrestling and that it wasn't that great. I re-watched it a month ago and I totally lost it. I thought it was unbelievable. That's also exactly what I thought when I watched it back then. It was also the first time I saw Joe, so probably not the best introduction. Now that I'm familiar through years of TNA, I wonder if my perception would be different too... Don't give me the urge to go through these "5 stars" matches for the sake of it... Considering my opinion on it changed with a recent re-watch, I'd love to see your take on it upon a re-watch, so...
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842445 Golden Lovers vs Young Bucks was good but hardly great imo. That's the one for me
April 13, 20187 yr Author comment_5842446 Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi. I know people still love that, and I remember it being a huge fucking deal at the time - and it still is, when you think about it - but I wouldn't rank it *that* high. Joe cosplaying as a 90s AJPW wrestler is fun and all, but it kinda made him look a little bit like a geek. It's an awesome spectacle of a match, but it is a bit silly how many chops they do (and this is coming from someone who loves even NOAH-era Kobashi). You must really hate Kobashi vs. Kensuke... Haha, interestingly enough I really like that one. Like them both really. Just a little too much chopping.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842447 Golden Lovers vs Young Bucks was good but hardly great imo. That's the one for me That would probably be my pick.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842454 Golden Lovers vs Young Bucks was good but hardly great imo. That's the one for me That would probably be my pick. How is this lesser than the PWG spotfest mentioned in the initial post? Bucks-Lovers is a well-constructed match with serious emotion behind it. The PWG match is a fun spotfest.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842458 Eh fair... they would both be in the conversation. I mean, so would the NXT ladder match. I am sure there are plenty more too. It is all sort in this clump of matches that I think are good, but wouldn't consider throwing 5 at. Every time I see something that I would put in that group mentioned I think "that is probably it" until another one gets mentioned.
April 13, 20187 yr Author comment_5842460 I personally threw a 5 at Bucks-Lovers, but can definitely see why some folks didn't. It's a long match and gets pretty cheesy with the acting, which Ciampa-Gargano definitely got better.
April 13, 20187 yr comment_5842462 I was in the crowd for Joe vs Kobashi, and it was off the charts great as a live experience. I dont know if it comes off as amazing on DVD or whatever.
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