I've always been skeptical because people on wrestling message boards tend to assume anyone acting over the top about anything at all did it under the influence of cocaine. How many times have we heard someone talk about coked out promos that probably at least some of the time don't involve cocaine at all? With Vince, I could never figure out if everyone was accusing him of behaving like a coke addict because he's so strange at times, or if he was actually accused of doing cocaine. Same for Ric Flair.

With Vince, there's plenty of evidence that he was a big cocaine user in the past and enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that his proclamations of being a reformed character in this regard ("I don't do illegal drugs") are disingenuous. I really think this is more likely to be the reason he doesn't submit himself to company drug testing, despite still being an on screen performer over the last few years. After all, no doctor is going to give someone a prescription for cocaine.

 

With Flair, I roll my eyes at the suggestion that he's never done cocaine. I mean the most renown partier in the business in the '80s never touched the stuff. Please. Maybe he wasn't an addict and predominantly chose booze and broads over coke, like Bret Hart did, but I'm sure he dabbled, just like Bret did.

Set aside coke with Vince.

 

Does anyone really seriously want to claim that Vince didn't have a massive addiction to roids? Quite possibly still does for all any of us know. He may have been the biggest roid addict in the business when one thinks about it a bit.

 

Seriously, one has to defend saying Vince an addict? For fuck's sake... for our next trick, we're going to say Shaq is Tall.

 

John

What Keith says on Flair. One of the funniest things I can recall on a wrestling message board was Madden going on a bender after I laughed at the notion that Flair never did lines. I could never figure out if Madden was that naive, that lost in hero worship of Flair that he was in denial, or just that protective of Saint Flair that he couldn't handle someone stating the obvious. It's too bad the older Torch Board posts are gone because I'd love to read that freak out on his part again.

 

John

Mike Johnson interviewed Brian Shields the author of the WWE Enyclopedia. He was talking about the fun he had with having the WWE archive at his fingertips mentioning he was going to an updated version he would try and request one of the Hogan, Savage & Steamboat vs Honky Tonk Man & Hart Foundation matches. Have you guys come across one of these matches?

Quite possibly still does for all any of us know.

You're being far too generous, John. I mean one of the funniest things I can recall a carny pushing was Billy Graham, while he was on the WWE payroll, trying to persuade Dave Meltzer that he was sure Vince McMahon was steroid free a few years ago. Dave wasn't buying that.

 

Mike Johnson interviewed Brian Shields the author of the WWE Enyclopedia. He was talking about the fun he had with having the WWE archive at his fingertips mentioning he was going to an updated version he would try and request one of the Hogan, Savage & Steamboat vs Honky Tonk Man & Hart Foundation matches. Have you guys come across one of these matches?

I don't believe any took place. None are on Graham's site. This is as close as one gets:

 

WWF @ Sacramento, CA - Arco Arena - December 6, 1987

Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, & Brutus Beefcake defeated WWF IC Champion the Honkytonk Man, Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart when Savage pinned Neidhart

 

WWF @ Toronto, Ontario - Maple Leaf Gardens - February 7, 1988

Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, & Jim Duggan defeated WWF IC Champion the Honkytonk Man, Bret Hart, & Jim Neidhart when Duggan pinned Hart

 

There's a pretty narrow window between Randy's face turn and Steamboat leaving (after Mania '88). Much of that period saw Steamer out with his son being born, and then working a limited schedule. It doesn't seem likely that Graham is missing a card with Hogan on it that was *taped*. Maybe a dark match at a TV taping that wasn't mentioned? On the other hand, Graham has a fair number of the dark matches listed when they pop up in the WON or elsewhere.

 

John

I thought so to for the narrow window of time you described.

WWF @ Toronto, Ontario - Maple Leaf Gardens - February 7, 1988

Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, & Jim Duggan defeated WWF IC Champion the Honkytonk Man, Bret Hart, & Jim Neidhart when Duggan pinned Hart

Ugh, I was at that show. It was awful. There were a bunch of no shows, and I remember because of it, Koko B. Ware had to wrestle twice. *shudders* My favorite part was when Duggan tried to get a "USA" chant going...when he was fighting two Americans and a Canadian...in Toronto.

Colt Cabana has his own podcast and it shows lot promise. Thankfully he didnt go down the blogtalkradio route:

http://www.welovecolt.com/

CM Punk (what?) is this week's guest

What Keith says on Flair. One of the funniest things I can recall on a wrestling message board was Madden going on a bender after I laughed at the notion that Flair never did lines. I could never figure out if Madden was that naive, that lost in hero worship of Flair that he was in denial, or just that protective of Saint Flair that he couldn't handle someone stating the obvious. It's too bad the older Torch Board posts are gone because I'd love to read that freak out on his part again.

 

John

Let's be honest: The vast majority of wrestlers who were around during the 1980s likely did a certain amount of coke, whether it was a small amount or regular users. You could tell some did it far more than others, but the boys sharing coke was a common practice back then.

 

As far as guys like Vince and Flair are concerned, those two are just plain nutty to begin with, so it's not like they needed coke to get them to go nuts on a promo. Flair has always been the party animal and refuses to give that up to this day, while Vince's mind can really be warped.

http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling3/kotdm15/listsleeze.html

BTW, the Ryder stuff on that page, if it's true, explains everything about the 1wrestling meltdown. And I'll leave it at that.

Set aside coke with Vince.

 

Does anyone really seriously want to claim that Vince didn't have a massive addiction to roids? Quite possibly still does for all any of us know. He may have been the biggest roid addict in the business when one thinks about it a bit.

 

Seriously, one has to defend saying Vince an addict? For fuck's sake... for our next trick, we're going to say Shaq is Tall.

 

John

No, one doesn't have to defend themselves when calling Vince an addict. He has very obviously used steroids for a long time.

 

My beef is more with people overusing the phrase "coked out", and using it in a way where I can't always figure out if they're just referring to hyperactive behavior or if they're seriously accusing someone of being a cocaine user.

Certainly when watching WWF programming from the 80s you can tell some guys are a lot more revved up than others. Piper for one comes to mind immediately, some of his promos from back then were done under the influence of at least one if not several substances. Even more so when you contrast it to ones he did in the 90s on up to today where he seems like a LP played on a slower speed by comparison.

The promo that Piper cuts from the bathroom stall at I believe the Slammys that one year has to be seen to be believed. I mean he is completely drugged out of his goard. Even as a kid I knew something was up

http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling3/kotdm15/listsleeze.html

BTW, the Ryder stuff on that page, if it's true, explains everything about the 1wrestling meltdown. And I'll leave it at that.

 

Someone needs to get that off Angle Fire onto say the DVDVR before AngleFire dies. DVDVR has a domain, and has other HTML files up like the 90s poll results.

 

John

I think DVDVR has tried desperately to distance themselves from the Sleaze thread. I don't even think it's still on the original board.

Enough of the Ryder stuff has been corroborated (especially by the "read between the lines" item in the WON about the promo that Road Dogg cut on Ryder backstage once that was implied to be about getting guys pushes for suspect reasons) that I believe it, at least.

The promo that Piper cuts from the bathroom stall at I believe the Slammys that one year has to be seen to be believed. I mean he is completely drugged out of his goard. Even as a kid I knew something was up

 

The Halloween one he did for (I think) TNT is my favorite whacked out Piper promo, even more so since I believe Steph was one of the kids in it.

Someone needs to get that off Angle Fire onto say the DVDVR before AngleFire dies. DVDVR has a domain, and has other HTML files up like the 90s poll results.

 

John

The DVD board was hacked (or something) in, I think, 2005, which deleted everything. So the Angelfire page has outlasted DVDVR by about six years so far.

What happened to Anglefire's competitor in free websites from back in the day?

 

John

Geocities? Yahoo closed it.

Geocities? Tripod?

If it wasn't for geocities getting the axe, I would say AF is about as permanent as webpages get. Especially when you consider that there are still AF pages that have been around since Clinton was president.

 

Hmm, a quick google search finds this:

 

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/careywatch/1st_1997.html

A Regularly Updated Report On Investigations Into Ron Carey's 1996 Campaign For General President Of the Teamsters

 

Last Updated

September 30, 1997

So, the Jericho DVD looks pretty solid, although not including the Last Man Standing match with HHH is mildly surprising. It does have the Thrillseekers vignettes, though.