Discuss pros and cons.

I am pretty firm on ending this on the sell date. Once Watts is gone, it isn't the Watts set anymore. Plus it isn't like we are going to have any problem filling this without those 8 months. If we were doing a best of ECW set we wouldn't put on C.M. Punk v. Stevie.

Yeah but you really can't compare this to ECW because ECW died and was revived 5 years later as UWF continued as normal but with different talent.

OK, after reading Phil's comments about not putting on a match because it should be a Crockett set, I think we have to revisit this topic. I know in the past Loss and Kris felt we should end when the name UWF/Power Pro ended. If it happened on UWF TV then it was a UWF match. If it was featured on a Crockett show, it went on the Crockett set. Can you guys update your thoughts?

Well I'm working my way to the buyout era now so I'll have a better opinion in a few days.

UWF that is all people talking about Dusty Rhodes isn't really UWF, plus we could get done quicker

I still think it should be toward the end, simply because the post-Watts UWF really doesn't fit in with the Crockett set at all either. It becomes its own animal, and the easiest thing to do is just include it with everything else.

 

Most promotions are drastically different when they're dying.

I agree with Loss. Now, what we can do is put matches like Murdoch-Windham (over the Heritage belt) or Bubba-Doc in the UWF category while matches that feature Crockett guys with no UWF storylines like the Garvin-Blanchard match in the Crockett category. Bubba-Doc would seem just as out of place on the Crockett set as Garvin-Blanchar dis on the UWF set. However, if we are going by home-fed rule then even that match should be included in the same way that we included Nick Bockwinkle matches early on in the set.

Phil brought this topic back up and wanted us to reconsider ending the set with the Crockett sale. Does anyone have a change of opinon or want to voice your opinion again?

I think you still have to include it.

 

If this were Best of the 90s and you were doing WCW, you wouldn't separate into Jim Herd, Kip Frey, Bill Watts, Eric Bischoff and Bill Busch/Vince Russo sets. Chances are many of them didn't watch the eras when they weren't in charge either. Monday Nitro, cruiserweights and NWO certainly feels totally different than Center Stage, the Dangerous Alliance and Sting and Luger as top babyfaces. Neither of those feels very much like Worldwide tapings at Disney/MGM.

 

I really see the Mid South set the same way.

 

My main point of contention to it is that where you do put the post-buyout stuff? It doesn't really fit with Crockett, because you had guys working there after the buyout that would be way more out of place on a Crockett set than they would be on a Watts set. Young heel Sting tag matches where he's a lackey for Eddie Gilbert feels like a UWF match, not an NWA match. Terry Gordy as anything but a spot show guy doing six-mans with Hayes and Roberts feels UWF-ish, not NWA-ish. Yes, there are overlaps in talent, guys like Flair (who'd be on the set anyway), and Barry Windham and Dusty Rhodes (who'd also be on the set anyway). Yes, the promotion wasn't the same anymore.

 

But to repeat what I said before -- most promotions are drastically different when they're dying. This case is no different, and no less disappointing to watch, but it still rings true.

The last date of a nominated match is 8/1/87 and UWF was still a separate crew then with some JCP involvement but nothing that was to come a month later.

I am reopening this, with the arguments about Maple Leaf, I don't see how we could put a seperate promotion with similar talent in an NWA set, but not a promotion wholy owned by Crockett in a seperate set. Also Will nominated a Murdoch v. Williams match from a Bash in the NWA set, but at that point UWF wasn't running seperate shows. Just seems like the easiest solution is to end Watts when Watts ends.

My disagreement with that is that you have a show called UWF Power Pro Wrestling showing matches that aren't on the set with other UWF matches.

 

Also, at that time, the UWF and NWA were still running separate shows.

 

The next night, the NWA crew was in Greensboro (Flair/Garvin and Luger/Nikita cage matches) and the UWF crew was in Oklahoma City (Windham/Murdoch TV time limit draw).

UWF was running separate shows all the way until mid September. This was the last UWF centric show I have on record.

 

UWF @ Lubbock, TX – September 19, 1987 (650)

Davey Haskins d. The Enforcer

Steve Cox d. Gary Young

Ron Simmons d. Shaska Whatley

The Lightning Express fought The Jive Tones to a draw

UWF Heavyweight Title: Steve Williams © d. Black Bart

First Blood Elimination Steel Cage: Shane Douglas, Michael Hayes, & Sting d. Big Bubba Rogers, Rick Steiner, & The Terminator

I think the biggest mistake is to call it the Watts set. Just as I think it is silly to call a set the Solie set or a Crockett set. If we call it the Mid South/UWF/Houston set... which is what it actually is then there really isn't any debate. This actually goes back to my Maple Leaf argument. If you watch the Maple Leaf I have, it is essentially the equivalent of Houston where they would air thier own matches and have their own talent but relied heavily on the mothership promotion... And occasionally talent from a different promotion would be featured.

The mothership promotion of Maple Leaf was Maple Leaf itself in Frank Tunney remember NWA wasn't a promotion just a sanctioning body.

It may be the sanctioning body but it was all over the title of the TV show and the wrestling mats.

 

EDIT: Not for Maple Leaf but for all of the TBS shows and the Handhelds and the commercial titles.

"World Championship Wrestling sanctioned by the National Wrestling Alliance"

 

The first time that Crockett actually used NWA in the name of his TV shows was when they switched from the Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling name to NWA Pro Wrestling and that was in like May 1986. The wrestling mags called the promotion World Championship switching from Mid-Atlantic in the Fall of 1985 at the time until everyone but Don Owen & Giant Baba in 1987.

It still doesn't change the fact that Maple Leaf fits better with Mid Atlantic/WCW/NWA than it does with The Harts and Stampede. The same way Houston fits better with Mid South than it does with a Texas category.

Well of course Houston is with Mid-South because their TV was Mid-South's TV with added Houston matches.

 

Maple Leaf taped their own TV sprinkled in a little JCP TV matches to build up the matches for the MLG shows.

OK, I understand what you are saying but lets get this out of the way... how much Maple Leaf do you have that is available? I have 4 discs... and with the exception of a couple of Vince McMahon interview segments, it is nearly all Mid Atlantic talent. The Lynch Mid Atlantic set also has a few Maple Leaf matches... with Mid Atlantic talent. If you have a ton of Maple Leaf, feel free to post match lists and reinforce your point. A bunch of Johnny Weaver and Ivan Koloff matches do not belong with Makhan Singh and Ben Bassarab.

 

Since we have Memphis and joshi coming up, this really won't be an issue for awhile but I'll go on the hunt for more Maple Leaf footage. In the meantime, look through Steve Frieldander's list and see how muh he has and I'll happily purchase it. In the meantime, the footage we actually have is better placed in a Mid Atlantic set than a Canada set. And if we are going to put it in Canada, then we need to consider the matches that are Houston exclusive as part of the Texas category.

I got some assorted matches but not a Maple Leaf centric tape but looking at Maple Leaf matchlists I see these names who were not on the Crockett roster at the time.

 

Tony Parisi

Dominic DeNucci

Angelo Mosca

Adrian Adonis

Jesse Ventura

Tito Santana

Tarzan Tyler

Crusher Blackwell

Rudy & Terry Kay

Leo Burke

The Destroyer

Barry Horowitz getting a push as Brett Hart

 

I'm tired of arguing this topic though and I am going to concede this one to you.

I am getting the Maple Stuff from Will, how about I tiebreak this?

That sounds good to me. In fact, I was going to mention that before Kris conceded.