http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2014/4/14/5614086/jim-ross-goes-off-on-the-status-of-heels-in-wwe

Typical passive aggressive Jim Ross. If he feels that strongly about today's heels, then he should name names and point to specific segments and examples.

He comes off as being ridiculously narrow minded and out of touch.

How could we use Jim Ross phrases to describe Jim Ross? I'll try.

 

One finds that many podcast hosts in today's marketplace are more concerned with getting "clever" lines in than having conversations that interest the listener and maximizing their minutes. This needless behavior is antagonistic from where I sit. But that's just one Okie's opinion.

Typical passive aggressive Jim Ross. If he feels that strongly about today's heels, then he should name names and point to specific segments and examples.

 

But if he did that, people would rake him over hot coals for "burying" young talent. Major Catch-22 with a side of BBQ.

He's so unusual.

 

Don't want this to get slept on. I laughed.

How could we use Jim Ross phrases to describe Jim Ross? I'll try.

 

One finds that many podcast hosts in today's marketplace are more concerned with getting "clever" lines in than having conversations that interest the listener and maximizing their minutes. This needless behavior is antagonistic from where I sit. But that's just one Okie's opinion.

 

Nailed it. Overblown, bland, showing off needlessly with the vocabulary, but still masking it with humility at the end. Perfect!

 

How could we use Jim Ross phrases to describe Jim Ross? I'll try.

 

One finds that many podcast hosts in today's marketplace are more concerned with getting "clever" lines in than having conversations that interest the listener and maximizing their minutes. This needless behavior is antagonistic from where I sit. But that's just one Okie's opinion.

 

Nailed it. Overblown, bland, showing off needlessly with the vocabulary, but still masking it with humility at the end. Perfect!

 

 

Don't forget the needless sports metaphor

 

He's so unusual.

 

Don't want this to get slept on. I laughed.

I noticed it too but I didn't want Loss to get in a trap of doing nothing but 80s album puns.

 

 

How could we use Jim Ross phrases to describe Jim Ross? I'll try.

 

One finds that many podcast hosts in today's marketplace are more concerned with getting "clever" lines in than having conversations that interest the listener and maximizing their minutes. This needless behavior is antagonistic from where I sit. But that's just one Okie's opinion.

 

Nailed it. Overblown, bland, showing off needlessly with the vocabulary, but still masking it with humility at the end. Perfect!

 

 

Don't forget the needless sports metaphor

 

 

But forgot to plug the bbq sauce and rub, which goes great on fish and veggies because, you know, JR is eating healthy now.

The thing is, I'm not even sure if Jim Ross is right. i mean, heels don't really work like that anymore. Not just because they can't or don't but because kayfabe is dead. If someone comes out on TV & acts like he's murdering people & raping their wives, the audience is gonna fucking laugh at him. Everyone has the internet. Everyone knows wrestling is fake. Hell, the fucking wrestlers themselves are on Twitter calling people marks & referring to themselves as heels. Being old school is one thing, being out of touch entirely is another.

 

The only way you really get heat nowadays is if you suck. So, I guess if you suck on purpose & do a 20-minute wristlock you'll be a good heel in Jim's mind? Even then the crowd might get behind you ironically.

 

The only way you really get heat nowadays is if you suck. So, I guess if you suck on purpose & do a 20-minute wristlock you'll be a good heel in Jim's mind? Even then the crowd might get behind you ironically.

 

That reminds me of Foley's ECW heel run in the mid 1990's where he refused to be hardcore anymore and wrestled headlock matches.

HHH and Stephanie got major heat going into Wrestlemania. It's still possible with heels who know what they are doing. It's just that the new work is a meta work.

They pretty much had to go full blown heel after the Rumble. The stuff with them trying to be impartial and dicking around with Orton wasn't really working. It was nice to see true heels. Heyman too I guess

I don't see where JR said anything too controversial. NJPW has more heels that work a classic American-heel style than WWE does. Not just cheating, but general stooging, in terms of heels being outsmarted and embarassed.

 

I don't know that it's a bad thing, though. WWE in-ring is pretty damn good and people are invested in the stories. It's just a different time. 1991 AJPW didn't have classic heels and they did good business.

 

There's an old-school philisophy that a truly effective heel has to be really despised. But WWE business has never been hotter than it was in the build-up to WM15, and the Rock was a top heel that the crowd desparately wanted to love and chant catchphrases with. The NWO lit WCW's business on fire for a few years while being cheered. The Horsemen had plenty of fans in the Carolinas but drew a lot of money. Cool heels can draw and they don't have to kill the faces if the faces are strong. People talk about how the NWO was too cool and undercut the faces, but Goldberg did just fine. Sting did fine. Heels don't always have to be universally loathed like the Shiek.

Agree with Sean. As long as the lines are clear in who the good and bad guys are and you're emotionally invested, it's all good. Heat is one of my favourite films. I understand the DeNiro was he bad guy and Pacino was the good guy. I knew where the lines were drawn, but hell, I got a kick of out of both characters as I was completely invested. Things don't have to be so black and white.

JR was on with Wade Keller for almost 4 hours of audio last week. He sounded at peace with himself and acknowledged that perhaps he took himself too seriously in the past which set him up for ribs. He said he looks back and thinks 'really, JR, really?'

 

Time to deactivate this thread. Goodnight everyone!

But to defend Ross's comments a little, let's look at the ending of the Barrett/Big E IC title match.

 

Barrett wins clean and LEADS THE AUDIENCE in a clap, hands over heads like its a Tesla concert. That's the type of stuff Santino and Emma do. Barrett is a fine worker and I get that the fans want to cheer him, but unless I missed the memo, he's still a heel that should be trying to get heat, not trying to lead the live crowds in cheers like an NBA mascot.

 

What irks me is that some will point to Barrett as this incredible worker when an incredible worker used to mean someone who can get heat as a heel and pops as a baby face. I think it still does.

But to defend Ross's comments a little, let's look at the ending of the Barrett/Big E IC title match.

 

Barrett wins clean and LEADS THE AUDIENCE in a clap, hands over heads like its a Tesla concert. That's the type of stuff Santino and Emma do. Barrett is a fine worker and I get that the fans want to cheer him, but unless I missed the memo, he's still a heel that should be trying to get heat, not trying to lead the live crowds in cheers like an NBA mascot.

 

What irks me is that some will point to Barrett as this incredible worker when an incredible worker used to mean someone who can get heat as a heel and pops as a baby face. I think it still does.

I caught that on both the Extreme Rules and "Raw" telecasts and wondered if he didn't get some heat for that since he seemed to be enjoying the reaction a little too much. He shouldn't be insulting the crowd and then relishing their popping for him anyway.

If no one backstage is calling him out on that shit, then their producers are sleeping on the job.

 

If someone in the back is telling him to keep up the good work, the longterm plan must be for him to be a babyface. Nothing else makes sense.

I have no problem with Ross talking about the need for stronger heels in wrestling. I actually agree with him. I just think he's a chickenshit because he directs his criticisms to wrestlers instead of the people dictating their every move. When writers script every word that comes out of a wrestler's mouth, and agents script every move they do in a match, how is it fair to criticize the personal character of the wrestlers, even saying that they don't have the internal strength to deal with being hated? He obviously thinks Vince makes horrible decisions creatively, and he can never just speak truth to power and say "Vince makes horrible decisions creatively."

There's been a steady march and movement back TOWARDS doing things the "good old" way though. Heels are going back to generating the right kind of heat. There aren't too many of the "cool heels" left. Even Triple H has lightened up and realized how profitable it can be for him in the long haul to - ya know - show ass and fall on his face when the time for a payoff comes.

 

Same thing when people bash Brock for being a part-timer. Yet they fawn all over the idea of creating "special attractions" like Andre for this modern day and age. Well there ya go. That's what they've effectively built with Brock now. Lesnar stands a legitimate chance of being a box office draw as just that - an updated version of the old touring "special attraction" model. With Heyman hyping him on TV and CONSTANTLY keeping him in fans' minds, he's this lingering presence that's never too far from the forefront of people's minds. It's clever, and it can work.

 

But back to the heels & their heat thing - I just don't see a lot of reason to bash the current product. To me, with a LOT of these criticisms we hear from Cornette and Ross lately, it's like they're lagging behind the times. A lot of these criticisms would've made sense 5 years ago. A decade ago, CERTAINLY. But lodging them now just makes them sound even MORE like dinosaurs, if anything. They're either out of touch with the product or not following as closely as they should, considering they're very much still attached to the industry.

When you put your world champion - who your fans literally hijacked months of shows to get in that position - into a Z level horror movie storyline, that's a pretty good reason to bash the current product. Intentional or not, it comes off as a giant "fuck you" to the paying customers for forcing them to change their booking when they clearly didn't want to.

Why is it so wacky and wrong for a heel to play to the fans who like him? Flair used to acknowledge the guys in suits who loved the Horsemen who were at the TBS tapings. What's the difference ?

Bill Laimbeer and the Pistons would acknowledge the fans who liked them.

It's funny because on this week's countdown, one of the first things anyone says is Barrett saying "To be a great villain you have to go out and make sure that not one person in the arena is cheering for you."