Didn't catch the whole match, but just seeing how Reigns was beating down on Jey while talking trash sums up just how big of a dunce Vince is for squandering this for five years.

Imagine if Roman had done that five years ago when it would have mattered instead of saying sufferin succotash.

2 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Imagine if Roman had done that five years ago when it would have mattered instead of saying sufferin succotash.

Eating all that succotash for five years made this moment sweeter.

10 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Imagine if Roman had done that five years ago when it would have mattered instead of saying sufferin succotash.

Dunno, bubba. The suffering succotash shit was way too early in his run, and while it sucked, the whole story behind him being the tribal chief was that he was a multi time champ and never really lost it etc. Basically him acknowledging that he is the big dog and behaving as such. It needed to be done years into his singles run.

They stumbled into something so amazing, it just wouldn't be the same if they just did it at the beggining.

They still could have altered Roman's character though He still was the happy go lucky babyface for the past five years. The " I'm sticking up for wwe!" stuff with Brock was super cringe. Not as cringe as suffering succotash but it made him seem like a corporate stooge

9 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Dunno, bubba. The suffering succotash shit was way too early in his run, and while it sucked, the whole story behind him being the tribal chief was that he was a multi time champ and never really lost it etc. Basically him acknowledging that he is the big dog and behaving as such. It needed to be done years into his singles run.

They stumbled into something so amazing, it just wouldn't be the same if they just did it at the beggining.

lol are we really arguing that him turning heel and being badass like this wouldn't have helped him, as opposed to him being John Cena junior? Like, sure, the details/execution might have been different, but the basic concept wouldn't have applied? Come on. 

I think they would have had a much better chance of making him the babyface they always thought he could be if he had had this heel run first.

Bryan mentioned on the post ppv Bryan and Vinny Show that the word backstage was Angel injured his quad. 

Didn't see the PPV but I saw a clip of the spot where Angel got injured and it's a miracle he didn't break his neck also in the process.

Interesting you're mentioning the quad; I first read it was a hip injury but quad also makes sense.

Dave's update was Nikki/Shayna/Nia was more of a situation where they may have been exposed to someone with covid and being held out to be safe rather than being sick themselves.

Also confirmed that Garza is believed to have a torn quad. 

The idea of Reigns as a heel suits his demeanour so much more but all that soap opera dialogue and 'you are the tribal chief' shit was cringe as hell. Can we not just have wrestling matches? Surely the whole point is that they tell a story through their actions rather than lying around doing ACTING~!

I zoned out during the totally forgettable second hour of uninspired rematches, but I caught the last two matches this morning and I thought they were both very good. 

Orton vs Mcintyre was a fun gimmicky brawl. Those two have great chemistry together and even the constant camera cuts didn't detract too much from the match. Mcintyre's back looked fucked after that windscreen spot. 

I think the Reigns vs Jey Uso match is going to divide a lot of people. It walked a thin line between storytelling classic and soap opera bullshit. I'm leaning more towards the former. Reigns looked like a megastar and Uso put in a fantastic babyface performance. Reigns is by far the most interesting wrestler in WWE at the moment. Can't wait to see what's next for him. 

Dustin Diamond looked good in the ladder match, but they were asking me to care about a Jeff Hardy swanton in 2020, which I don't know how to do. Maybe the handful of young people watching WWE had never seen it before.

Drew getting by with more than a little help from his friends makes him look weak, to mine eyes. Why would the putative babyface champ need or welcome help in a mano y mano situation? They weren't there to "even the odds" like traditional babyface interference.

Too much "acting" in the main for my taste. And yes, you need a strong storyline, but you also need a strong contender for a world championship match and main event. Put this match on earlier in the show and I would've been somewhat happier, but don't ask me to take Jey freaking Uso seriously as a headliner.

If I can think of any positives outside of Sami's performance, I'll come back and edit this for balance.

 

Based on the feedback I'll check out the ladder match and Roman/Jey later today.  Those were the only two matches I really had interest in going in anyway, so yea.....sounds like another skippable/predictable WWE show where you can pick and choose what to watch later on and not really miss anything

10 hours ago, MoS said:

lol are we really arguing that him turning heel and being badass like this wouldn't have helped him, as opposed to him being John Cena junior? Like, sure, the details/execution might have been different, but the basic concept wouldn't have applied? Come on. 

Not really the argument. It's more that it would have been something considerably different than what we are getting now.

This particular storyline benefits from how things played out. That's not to say he wouldn't have been a great heel back in 2015/16, just that we couldn't have done things the same.

Like, when we ask "why didn't they do this before?" we should ask "how would have they done this?" as well.

2 hours ago, Dav'oh said:

Drew getting by with more than a little help from his friends makes him look weak, to mine eyes. Why would the putative babyface champ need or welcome help in a mano y mano situation? They weren't there to "even the odds" like traditional babyface interference.

It's more that Orton fucked around with half a dozen people and got his comeuppance. Basically a Disney movie where the villain reaps what he sowed.

32 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Not really the argument. It's more that it would have been something considerably different than what we are getting now.

This particular storyline benefits from how things played out. That's not to say he wouldn't have been a great heel back in 2015/16, just that we couldn't have done things the same.

Like, when we ask "why didn't they do this before?" we should ask "how would have they done this?" as well.

Gedo turned on Okada and joined Jay White before he had won the title or truly established himself as a top guy. No reason there couldn't have been a similar dynamic with Heyman.

Seems fair enough. If they could've found a good way to write Lesnar off for good (I love most of his matches, but Heyman being with Roman kinda makes him useless as he just doesn't really bother to cut promos anymore), then it would be even better.

4 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Like, when we ask "why didn't they do this before?" we should ask "how would have they done this?" as well.

Literally any type of badass heel run would have been better than what we got in those years.

What's infuriating to me is that they had shades of an actually good badass-face protrayal back in 2016 during the HHH feud.

Like, just have him kick ass. He has enough charisma to carry his actions in ways other don't. Such a no-brainer.

15 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Dunno, bubba. The suffering succotash shit was way too early in his run, and while it sucked, the whole story behind him being the tribal chief was that he was a multi time champ and never really lost it etc. Basically him acknowledging that he is the big dog and behaving as such. It needed to be done years into his singles run.

They stumbled into something so amazing, it just wouldn't be the same if they just did it at the beggining.

Is that the story WWE is presenting or is that your headcanon? As best I can tell, they stuck Reigns and Heyman together and expected fans to fill in the gaps themselves.

2 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Is that the story WWE is presenting or is that your headcanon? As best I can tell, they stuck Reigns and Heyman together and expected fans to fill in the gaps themselves.

Mostly WWE's presentation, tbh. During Roman's 2nd run against Lesnar, Heyman hinted at being connected to Reigns' family, handing him some piece of paper which left Roman speechless etc. The part of him getting back the belt he never lost was stated literally, tho.

But on the other hand I may be too charitable.

14 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Is that the story WWE is presenting or is that your headcanon? As best I can tell, they stuck Reigns and Heyman together and expected fans to fill in the gaps themselves.

That's most of WWE's booking honestly. The stuff that vaguely makes sense anyway.

Heyman's history with the Samoans and how it ties to Roman has been canon since 2015. He has said in the past that if he could work with anyone beyond Brock, it would be Roman. This has been discussed on TV and in interviews/vignettes. Heyman mentioned their joint history again in the video he narrated for the UC match. They also positioned Roman as being anointed for greatness since birth, with the pictures of him being held by Hogan and Savage as a baby furthering that story.

My guess is with his return, Roman went for a full reset. Works with Heyman with creative control. 

No one expected Jey to win. The point is to show that if he's willing to do that much damage to family, how far will Roman go with someone he cares nothing about?

They stumbled into a lot of it by chance and circumstance, but there's a line to draw between Roman and Heyman for five years.

Just goes to show that regardless of what the calendar year is, or if kayfabe is dead or whatever... if you have a good story, a good angle & you can make people buy into what you're selling, it leads to good things.

That Uso story with Tribal Chief Roman Reigns beating the piss out of Jey... that was some good ass business. WWE needs more of stuff like that & a lot less stuff like Retribution. 

Just like when AEW did Cody Vs. Dustin. Pro wrestling is all about the emotion & it always will be. 

2 hours ago, Coffey said:

Just goes to show that regardless of what the calendar year is, or if kayfabe is dead or whatever... if you have a good story, a good angle & you can make people buy into what you're selling, it leads to good things.

That Uso story with Tribal Chief Roman Reigns beating the piss out of Jey... that was some good ass business. WWE needs more of stuff like that & a lot less stuff like Retribution. 

Just like when AEW did Cody Vs. Dustin. Pro wrestling is all about the emotion & it always will be. 

Family members engaging in brutal combat isn't authentic emotion. It's either too over-the-top to take seriously or too uncomfortable to be entertaining. The same problem as intergender wrestling, really. Cody/Dustin only worked because they reconciled immediately afterward. I can't think of any protracted wrestling feud between family members that was successful other than Bret/Owen, and even that would have flopped if it had risen to the level of homicidal violence. Hell, the climax of their feud was a cage match where they spent half an hour running away from each other.