Just because he didn't originally plan to be a wrestler and didn't like hanging around the building after his match (a rule I've never entirely understood) doesn't mean that he can't be a big fan of wrestling.

Just because he didn't originally plan to be a wrestler and didn't like hanging around the building after his match (a rule I've never entirely understood) doesn't mean that he can't be a big fan of wrestling.

Exactly.

As I recall it, the Rock got into wrestling because he couldn't play pro football, not because he was really into it.

The same probably could be said about John Cena (he fell into wrestling because he couldn't make it as a pro footballer or pro bodybuilder).

It's an observation I've made several times, but I may as well make it again - the quality of The Rock's work seemed to improve in inverse correlation to how how much he actually needed wrestling. You'd think a guy who didn't really care about wrestling would have been phoning it in a lot more once his movie career kicked off, not getting better. A lot of professional wrestlers are failed football players. I don't think it really proves anything.

As I recall it, the Rock got into wrestling because he couldn't play pro football, not because he was really into it. From everything I've ever heard about him he did his thing and took off, didn't stick around and pay much attention to others' matches nor the competition. Didn't Mick Foley say he just ignored him after bashing his head in at the 1999 Royal Rumble?

 

Of course this is just Vince McMahon's bitterness at not being able to put the bullet in Rock/book him to join the "Kiss My Ass" club.

Well, Rock wasn't the only wrestler who did that. RVD did the same thing. It's just that both guys would rather spend time looking at their own matches to see what they could do better instead of watching their co-worker's matches. I don't think Rock would have spent hours watching his own tapes and timing himself with a stopwatch (according to his ex-wife if they're not together again) if he didn't at least like his job.

There's also the point Dave keeps making that so many people forget:

 

Rock didn't cut ties with WWE. WWE cut ties with Rock.

There's also the point Dave keeps making that so many people forget:

 

Rock didn't cut ties with WWE. WWE cut ties with Rock.

Exactly, they let his contract lapse and it was something he was upset about and mentioned in the press.

 

I never understood the whole "give back" thing. He was paid to do a job and he did it really well. He brought in millions of dollars in ticket sales and merchandise to the company. He doesn't owe me, as a fan, anything. I paid to watch him and I always felt he put out a strong effort in his matches and promos. That's all the social contract calls for. Hell, there are plenty of wrestlers still working today that don't even accomplish that much.

 

It's not like he became a Johnny Carson-like recluse. The guy is all over TV and movies. If you're that big a fan of him you can see him in plenty of places.

If you're watching your tapes for hours and using a stopwatch, u gotta have a passion for what you're doing.

 

 

The Rock doesn't own the WWE, the business or the fans anything. People who expect things like that are users and it's one of the reasons why in life you have to make sure to look out for #1.

As I recall it, the Rock got into wrestling because he couldn't play pro football, not because he was really into it.

The guy grew up in wrestling locker rooms. His heroes were pro wrestlers. I'm sure he was "into it."

 

Rock is one of the all-time most admirable guys I've seen in wrestling. He was doing clean jobs on RAW for the Big Bossman and Al Snow while he was super-popular and didn't say a word. He probably did more clean jobs than any top face ever. He put Lesnar over clean at SummerSlam when it was time to make a new star and had a great match. Despite being at the top of the industry and making tons of money, he clearly improved every year he was in the business. Look at how much he grew from 98 to 2000. It's incredible. He was never complacent. He was well-liked backstage and by all accounts never developed an ego despite his enormous success. I mean, the guy even gave Dave quotes about his Observer HOF induction talking about how grateful he was. What more could you ever ask for from a guy?

I agree that the whole "Rock needs to give back to the business that made him" argument is completely ridiculous. He gives back a ton simply by being a success in Hollywood and being a class act in general. For someone who is in the public eye, there is surprisingly few negative stories about him, which is a lot more than can be said for most of the other major wrestling stars that are household names like Hogan, Flair, Austin and Ventura.

As I recall it, the Rock got into wrestling because he couldn't play pro football, not because he was really into it.

The guy grew up in wrestling locker rooms. His heroes were pro wrestlers. I'm sure he was "into it."

 

Rock is one of the all-time most admirable guys I've seen in wrestling. He was doing clean jobs on RAW for the Big Bossman and Al Snow while he was super-popular and didn't say a word. He probably did more clean jobs than any top face ever. He put Lesnar over clean at SummerSlam when it was time to make a new star and had a great match. Despite being at the top of the industry and making tons of money, he clearly improved every year he was in the business. Look at how much he grew from 98 to 2000. It's incredible. He was never complacent. He was well-liked backstage and by all accounts never developed an ego despite his enormous success. I mean, the guy even gave Dave quotes about his Observer HOF induction talking about how grateful he was. What more could you ever ask for from a guy?

 

The Rock was one of the wrestlers who weren't afraid to job. Kudos to him for that but I don't think he did more clean jobs than any face ever. He was very protected and rightfully so as a face during the year 2000.

 

 

Yeah, and he grew as a wrestler from 1998 to 2001. As a face he got better and better at knowing what to do and when to do it.

As I recall it, the Rock got into wrestling because he couldn't play pro football, not because he was really into it.

The guy grew up in wrestling locker rooms. His heroes were pro wrestlers. I'm sure he was "into it."

 

Rock is one of the all-time most admirable guys I've seen in wrestling. He was doing clean jobs on RAW for the Big Bossman and Al Snow while he was super-popular and didn't say a word. He probably did more clean jobs than any top face ever. He put Lesnar over clean at SummerSlam when it was time to make a new star and had a great match. Despite being at the top of the industry and making tons of money, he clearly improved every year he was in the business. Look at how much he grew from 98 to 2000. It's incredible. He was never complacent. He was well-liked backstage and by all accounts never developed an ego despite his enormous success. I mean, the guy even gave Dave quotes about his Observer HOF induction talking about how grateful he was. What more could you ever ask for from a guy?

 

The Rock was one of the wrestlers who weren't afraid to job. Kudos to him for that but I don't think he did more clean jobs than any face ever. He was very protected and rightfully so as a face during the year 2000.

 

 

I dunno. Like I noted, he was doing jobs for everybody in '99, including guys like Davey Boy, Snow, Bossman, a not-yet-over HHH, and surely other people I'm forgetting. It's like Vince was testing him that year. He was more protected in 2000, but he was still the first babyface to ever lose a WrestleMania main event. He lost the title to Angle relatively cleanly. In his feud with Jericho in 2001, he put Jericho over a few times when no one else was doing it. I remember him tapping out to a Benoit crossface cleanly with no interference during the build to the Lesnar match. What other super-over top babyface has ever lost as much? Of course the great thing is that none of those losses damaged him in the slightest because of how good he was.

And you KNOW that they probably wanted him to lose to Billy Gunn at SummerSlam in '99, but realize that Billy wasn't over one lick despite being programmed with the Rock for two months, and despite winning KOTR and whatever else, so they abandoned ship there and reunited the Outlaws that Fall.

Since Billy Gunn was mentioned, can I mention how hilarious it is in retrospect (it was sort of baffling back then too, even to my 14-year-old self) that the WWF's plan to getting Billy over as a main eventer was changing his name to "Mr. Ass," having him come out to a Huey Lewis-esque theme song called "I'm an Ass Man," and giving him a gimmick in which he brags about the shape of his buttocks and pulls down his pink hot pants to reveal his man-thong? Man, 1999 was TERRIBLE*.

 

 

 

 

*By 1999 I mean Vince Russo.

Since Billy Gunn was mentioned, can I mention how hilarious it is in retrospect (it was sort of baffling back then too, even to my 14-year-old self) that the WWF's plan to getting Billy over as a main eventer was changing his name to "Mr. Ass," having him come out to a Huey Lewis-esque theme song called "I'm an Ass Man," and giving him a gimmick in which he brags about the shape of his buttocks and pulls down his pink hot pants to reveal his man-thong? Man, 1999 was TERRIBLE*.

 

 

 

 

*By 1999 I mean Vince Russo.

The part I remember being funny is how some people on the 'net were saying that, between Road Dogg and Billy Gunn, that Billy was the one who looked more like he could be the "breakout singles star." I guess Russo bought into it as well.

I forget, were they still pushing Billy as "the best pure athlete in the WWF" at that point? I'm still trying to figure out what that claim was based on.

The part I remember being funny is how some people on the 'net were saying that, between Road Dogg and Billy Gunn, that Billy was the one who looked more like he could be the "breakout singles star." I guess Russo bought into it as well.

Billy looks more like the kind of guy that the WWF/WWE would push as a singles star. Road Dogg looks more like the guy that they would insist on having wear a shirt.

 

Thats not some crazy thing that Russo and the net made up.

I forget, were they still pushing Billy as "the best pure athlete in the WWF" at that point? I'm still trying to figure out what that claim was based on.

He could hit a high dropkick.

The last time I remember hearing the "best pure athlete" stuff was Armageddon 2000. JR commented that some believe that The One Billy Gunn is the Best Pure Athlete in the WWF and Lawler responded, "What? Who said that?" I don't think JR tried that line again. Of course, considering that an Olympic gold medalist was the world champion at the time, heaping such an accolade on a man once named after the human butt seemed a little silly.

I dunno. Like I noted, he was doing jobs for everybody in '99, including guys like Davey Boy, Snow, Bossman, a not-yet-over HHH, and surely other people I'm forgetting. It's like Vince was testing him that year. He was more protected in 2000, but he was still the first babyface to ever lose a WrestleMania main event. He lost the title to Angle relatively cleanly. In his feud with Jericho in 2001, he put Jericho over a few times when no one else was doing it. I remember him tapping out to a Benoit crossface cleanly with no interference during the build to the Lesnar match. What other super-over top babyface has ever lost as much? Of course the great thing is that none of those losses damaged him in the slightest because of how good he was.

I think the thing about a super over babyface doing jobs is that it HELPS them stay over. When a guy doesn't win every single match, it seems like that would the fans stay interested in every match he has because there is actually some question of the outcome. I'm not saying they should do a TON of jobs, but winning every single match starts to get old for most of the people outside of the kid fanbase.

My point wasn't that Rock didn't care about the business. John Cena is acting as if Rock's entire passion for life until 2004 was professional wrestling and then he quit suddenly for something better. Rock cared about his own performances, made himself better, and got a better job offer. That's how life works.

When you're in a career for a short time in the interest of finding yourself a better gig, you always end up pissing off the people who have devoted their lives to the company/profession/whatever.

 

Hell, I ran into it on a smaller scale when I worked in retail and made it clear I was just doing it to pay bills until I finished school and didn't consider it my lifelong career. The store manager was the textbook definition of a lifer and I never will forget when he told me I had to get my priorities in order when I asked for less hours in order to accommodate my school schedule. The look of shock mixed with personal insult when I replied that I already did have them in order was priceless. It literally never occurred to him that anyone would put something as a higher priority than the store.

 

 

Even better, just like the Rock I would sometimes return to say hi to my ex co-workers and the bosses would make half-joking attempts to get me to come back. Apparently they couldn't understand that someone could get a more satisfying (and better paying) job than retail and assumed anyone would jump at the chance to return.

 

 

What must be killing Vince is that he got Rock the gig that sprung his movie career and ended up getting next to nothing in return. He's even spent millions in a film division trying to prove he could turn anyone into a movie star and it's failed spectacularly.

What must be killing Vince is that he got Rock the gig that sprung his movie career and ended up getting next to nothing in return. He's even spent millions in a film division trying to prove he could turn anyone into a movie star and it's failed spectacularly.

Huh?

 

Vince got next to nothing in return for the time he put into the Rock?

 

How do you figure that?

What must be killing Vince is that he got Rock the gig that sprung his movie career and ended up getting next to nothing in return. He's even spent millions in a film division trying to prove he could turn anyone into a movie star and it's failed spectacularly.

Huh?

 

Vince got next to nothing in return for the time he put into the Rock?

 

How do you figure that?

 

 

The moment it became evident that Rock had a future in movies he really never looked back. Sure, we got his brief (and great) run as the heel Hollywood Rock with the obnoxiously awesome overlong entrance music, but you know Vince would like to have billing on all his movies since he "created" the Rock. Remember he tried to pull rank and said he wouldn't be able to use the "Rock" name without his permission since WWE owned it? It seemed like he honestly thought that the whole reason people saw his movies was because he was that guy from wrestling, not that he has natural comic timing and boatloads of charisma.

 

I'm not saying Vince didn't get anything in return for Rock as a wrestler, just that he seemed to think Rock was his key to get mainstream Hollywood acceptance and on that note he came up quite short.

Speaking of Cena's attitude with regards The Rock, from Sunday's Observer news update:

 

--John Cena has sort of changed his tune on Dwayne Johnson. He's a wonderful guy and Cena is just doing what he's doing on the ultra-slim chance that he can get a match with him at Mania next year at http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/wrestling-wwe-uf...-interview.html