Posted July 9, 200916 yr comment_5441718 He has been watching tons of WWE 80's matches over the last 3 years http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....&highlight=
September 20, 201015 yr comment_5456001 Here is a copy of an email I sent Will a while back with some stuff that I think stands out as "misses" from the first set. I apologize in advance for any screwed up dates. I THINK all of this is right. To some degree this is a vanity project for me of course, but I do think you guys can get some use out of this. A lot of it will overlap with John's thread, but I may have some different insights/reasons for some of those matches being worth inclusion and I've also got some stuff on here that he didn't like or didn't review at all. Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera - Madison Square Garden 1/21 Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera - Madison Square Garden 5/19 Arguably the biggest omission from the first set. I'm not as big a Backlund fan as some, but I am a Patera fan and I think it really didn't speak well for the set that such a great heel run was excluded. May match is particularly egregious because it was the WON MOTY which in my view should get you a guaranteed slot on a set like this regardless of what I may think of Dave's opinions on wrestling. Hell I'm not nearly as high on that match as some people and even I would have it in a top five for the entire World from 1980. Actually the match from Jan. might make my top five too (I also feel it should included as a sort of "first out of the gate" quality WWF match from the decade). Something tells me I really don't need to sell you on these Ken Patera vs Tony Atlas 08/09/80 Really fun sprint with Patera carrying Atlas by working a fast paced but not rushed match. Another good example of quality Patera this time working with a very limited in ring talent. Backlund vs Race - 9/22/80 I don't care for this at all but it really should make the set as it is a match people waited for years to see in full and it fits both the "dream match" and "curiosity" categories that make these sets so interesting. There is also the fact that a lot of people will like this more than me. Seriously though if the TM v. DK matches made the NJPW set I have a hard time seeing a good argument for leaving this off of a WWF re-do. Ken Patera vs Pedro Morales 10/20/80 (MSG) Patera being awesome again. This is probably my favorite Morales match ever which isn't really saying much, but he is a guy that I think ought to make the set if there is something "good enough" and this is it. I'd take the Atlas match over it if forced to choose. Ken Patera vs Bruno Sammartino 11/08/80 Better than any of the Larry Z v. Bruno matches, though I'm not sure it's better than the 86 Cage Match with Piper. The final awesome performance of Patera's run. Real good heat in this one and Patera's bumping and stooging for Bruno are entertaining and more believable than you might think. Bob Backlund vs Sgt Slaughter 02/14/81 John and others like this a lot more than me, but it's still a good match, with a very strong pace and really should make the set. Bob Backlund vs. Don Muraco - Madison Square Garden 9/21 For my money this is PROBABLY the best match ommitted from the original set. This is another one I really don't feel the need to see you on, but it is a very good performance from both guys and a great use of the gimmick. Bob Backlund vs Don Muraco 1/14/81 I liked this a lot better than the long Philly match on an initial viewing. These two really were good opponents for one another. Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine - Madison Square Garden 11/23/81 Good match. Was well received for the SC poll. Eddie Gilbert vs. Tiger Mask Philly 11/25/82 This isn't a "home run" match but the last time I saw it I remember thinking it was a pretty solid bout. I'd include it because it's sort of the ultimate curiosity match as Gilbert and TM are pretty far from "WWF" guys and the match was better than the vast, vast majority of undercard stuff WWF ran at the time. Certainly better than any DK v. TM match I can remember. Bob Backlund vs. Sgt. Slaughter 05/23/83 (MSG) Don't remember if this made the set or not, but this is the best WWF match of 83. Bob Backlund vs Don Muraco 02/18/83 This is the best of their 83 matches. I could see leaving this off the set because it is nowhere near as good as the 81 matches. Having said that 83 is a year that is very light on obvious picks so if you are looking to spread the love around this is one of a handful of matches from that year that I think stands up with the best of other years. Backlund vs. Masked Superstar - MSG 10/17/83 Not great, but good. In some ways disappointing given who was in the ring, but Superstar is a guy who I think ought to make the set if possible and I'm not sure you are going to find better than this from him. It's also another "good for 83" match. Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine - Madison Square Garden 4/23/84 I think this MIGHT be there best match from the decade (the 79 match is their best match). Less dead time than the other matches and this also comes across as the swan song for Backlund which is another good reason to throw it on the set. Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - Madison Square Garden 6/16/84 Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - Madison Square Garden 11/26/84 Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana - Madison Square Garden 1/21/85 Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana 07/06/85 Breaking the chronology here but I think ALL of these matches are easily good enough to make the set and aside from maybe Patera's 80 run NOTHING was more screwed over by the first set than this feud. Every match feels like a fight, is intense as all, and really showcases Tito as an awesome fiery babyface. Tito Santana vs. Bob Orton 07/23/84 I've seen three of their matches from around this period and this is the best of the bunch. Another good Tito match, but Bob O is great here too. Terry Funk vs. Lanny Poffo - Madison Square Garden 7/13 (aired PTW 7/30) Personal favorite, but just so we know that I'm not crazy/alone here is caley's review from SC Monsoon and Hayes warn the fans about the danger of Funk being here, then Funk almost drops his branding iron on Hayes. Apparently, previously, a ring attendant put on Funk’s hat, so when Funk see him this time he whips him with his leather poncho. Funk backs Poffo into the ropes, then Poffo turns the tide and does a backflip, and Funk turns and looks at the crowd like “The hell?” and Hayes and Monsoon share a big laugh. Funk really lays in some shots on Poffo as payback for the backflip. Funk takes a ridiculous upside-down bump into the corner, calls the cameraman a son of a bitch, and spits on him as the cameraman points at him. Poffo gets out of an arm-wringer by doing a backflip and Funk looks furious. Man, Funk grabs Poffo by the head, slips a leg between his legs, and jumps backwards over the ropes dumping Poffo on the floor. Really awesome. Poffo comes back with an atomic drop and Funk bounces straight up in the air, lands on his ass, then falls backwards through the ropes. Funk comes back on offence with a boxing flurry of punches and a big headbutt, followed by his spinning toe hold, but Poffo kicks him in the head. Funk keeps nailing Poffo with headbutts which gradually wears him out and he collapses. Funk suplexes Poffo over the ropes and Poffo looks like he’s in bad shape. Funk’s vertical suplex, where he walks and jogs around the ring is awesome. Funk gives the ref a shove for not giving him the three-count. Poffo gets a nearfall, so near that the bell rings, which is kind of awesome, because it gives you the impression that the ending really is in doubt. Funk gets hung up on the ropes, so Poffo lays on the mat underneath him and bounces Funk in the air on his feet. Poffo hits a moonsault (!), then a huracanrana (!!). Funk sinks in a deep sleeper and Poffo tries to get out of it, but Funk cranks it in tight and the ref stops the match. Great match, actually. Funk brands Poffo after the match, then he stomps him while the ref watches and doesn’t do anything. This is seriously good enough to vote for. This also really fits into the "curiosity" category pretty solidly I would think. Hulk Hogan vs. Terry Funk - Tampa, FL 12/19 (aired SNME 1/4/86) Much better than all but a couple of the Hogan matches that made the original set. Terry was an awesome opponent for Hulk and this was really well done for a tv match. Tito Santana vs. Randy Savage 01/11/86 Tito Santana vs. Randy Savage 02/08/86 Randy Savage vs. Tito Santana - 5/4/86 Toronto Maple Leaf Gardens (24/7) Breaking the chronology again because this was another screwed over feud from the first set. These matches are really wild as fuck with Savage and Tito just leaping at each other, brawling around the arenas, et. The Maple Leaf Gardens match goes farther in that direction but all of them are nasty hatefilled fights. Bruno Sammartino vs. Roddy Piper - Boston Garden 2/8 Good Cage match. WAY better than it should have been which is the primary reason i would argue for it's inclusion. Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage 04/26/86 Littly shaky on this as I have it marked as "very good." This may be the Lumberjack match which I thought was the best of the bunch Hulk Hogan defeated Paul Orndorff 08/28/86 Extremely underrated feud. There are several matches good enough to make the set, but this match from the Big Event is probably the best fit as it's on the grandest stage and provides an interesting contrast with the Steamboat v. Jake match from the same show that sucks. Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat 10/28/86 Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat - Maple Leaf Gardens 2/15/87 These are both obvious ommissions that I'm sure will be corrected. The Toronto match is an arguable top five match. Tito Santana vs. Jake Roberts 11/26/86 This MIGHT be the best Jake match from the WWF. Smartly worked with Jake's psych schtick coming across well. Should really make the set. Savage/Adonis/Race vs. Steamboat/Piper/Junkyard Dog - Madison Square Garden 2/23/87 Fun as shit, go home match for Mania, billed as the last Piper appearance in MSG and built around that. Everyone busts their ass and you get some really interesting pairings and exchanges. Top 20 contender. Hulk Hogan vs. Harley Race - Madison Square Garden 6/14/87 Better than virtually any other Hogan match. Race bumps like crazy. I really found it strange this didn't make the first set. Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart vs. Rick Martel & Tito Santana 10/27/87 Strike Force vs. Hart Foundation 11/24/87 The best Strike Force matches I've seen and good example of solid heel v. solid face tag team match with a structure that is more sensical than what you usually got from the WWF. Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase - Wrestlefest Milwaukee, WI 7/31 I'm not as big a fan of this as others are, but this is the best match they ever had and it's not really close. Really well paced and the crowd seemed to really hate Dibiase something fierce. Red Rooster vs. Blue Blazer - MSG 12/30/88 Really awesome, ahead of it's time match. Taylor really worked well with Owen's quasi-junior style as there are several nifty exchanges in this on his end plus the usual smoothness that was Owen from this period. This is not quite as good as Horowitz v. Owen from LA but it's in the same neighborhood and is another match that fits as a "curiosity." Hart Foundation/Jim Duggan vs. Rougeau Brothers/Dino Bravo - Royal Rumble 1/15/89 Good match. Sort of interesting and distinct from a lot of the things that were going on at the time. Probably the best Rougeau Brothers match. Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty 03/18/89 This is probably the best match these two teams had as the Busters weren't made to play the total fool and The Rockers worked a pace that was more giving. Not sure how well it would hold up now, but last time I watched it I thought it was a top ten WWF/E tag ever. Randy Savage vs. Jim Neidhart - Des Moines, IA 4/25 (aired SNME 5/27) This is not a great match, but it's a very solid carry job from Savage. Neidhart is not a total zero here, but this is mainly worth including to see how a guy like Savage could have a really enjoyable match just by doing his normal schtick around anyone they threw at him. Greg Valentine vs. Bret Hart - Meadowlands 5/8 (aired PTW 12/25) This is another one that's not great, but it is very good. Probably the last really strong Valentine singles match and an early case of Bret's ring generalship making a match better than you might expect. Demolition vs. Brainbusters - Worcester, MA 7/18 (aired SNME 7/29) This is one that has it's fans. I'm not huge on it, but it strikes me as the sort of thing that should make the set because it's a "Golden Age" tag match that is actually good and it's a Demolition match you could point to and say "this was good." Rockers/Tito Santana vs. Rougeau Brothers/Rick Martel - Summerslam 8/28 This MIGHT be better than the Royal Rumble six-man. I thought Martel was a lot of fun in this and I love The Rockers, but I'd mostly point to this as another "something different" matchup. Tito Santana vs Barry Windham - 09-18-1989 Very good match, best Windham ever had with Vince. Not a carry job at all though and you get the feeling watching this that Tito was every bit as good in 89 as he was in the 84-86 corridor when he was pushed as THE upper mid-card babyface. Bret Hart vs. Rick Martel - Louisville, KY 9/20 (aired PTW 10/16) This is really strong and should be gimme pick for the set. Well laid out draw with some clever exchanges and escapes from both guys and a solid build from bell to bell. Martel's best WWF match. Hart Foundation vs. Rockers - Madison Square Garden 11/25 Top five WWF tag of all time. Never should have been left off the original set as it's probably the best put together of any WWF tag from the period and showcases the best of both teams.
September 20, 201015 yr comment_5456002 We'll keep these in check but I am screening Bob Backlund and Adrian Adonis fandom before putting someone on the WWF squad. Your irrational hate of North/South may hurt your chances.
September 20, 201015 yr comment_5456004 Not lobbying to be on any committee really I just wanted to get this out there. My opinion of Adonis has slipped over the years, though I like the Adonis/Ventura team more than most (which I guess is good for the AWA set). I'm not a big Backlund fan, but for a guy on the net who is not a Backlund guy, you'd be hard pressed to find more people who are fair to him than me. How man North/South matches made tape from there 84 run?
September 20, 201015 yr comment_5456014 FWIW, we desperately wanted Tito-Barry but couldn't find it at the time. A LOT of footage has surfaced since then, as the first set was very early in the DVD trading age.
September 20, 201015 yr comment_5456019 Oh yeah I didn't mean that as a criticism of you guys. I mean some of the Backlund omissions were puzzling, but a lot of the issues here were issues of footage availability.
September 23, 201015 yr comment_5456153 For the record, i was a dick and completely critical of the first project. However, agreed that much footage simply was not available.
