Yeah so there always is amusing commentary and this set feels like its going to get troll out some of the best.

I started the build to accusing smkelly of being a schneider sock puppet but then lost interest.

Favorite comment thus far though comes from Obserrver/Figure Four board:

 

Michael Smith ---

It's worth it for the hot crowds but don't expect to be blown away by the match quality.

Has this actually become an internet meme that I missed?

 

Does 80s American wrestling now have the better work but suffer quiet and respectful crowds?

I don't know if it's a meme already, but sadly, wouldn't be shocked if it turns into one.

 

Well, more like "80's American wrestling has the better work but suffers from quiet and respectful crowds, except for Memphis/Mid-South/whatever else we're talking about that we like, which suffers from the same problems puro does".

 

I have hung around the internet long enough to see conventional smark wisdom swing from "the DVDVR Playas are blind WWF/E haters" to "the DVDVR Playas are blind WWF/E fanboys" almost overnight with nobody missing a beat. Guys like us are criticized for allegedly having certain opinions only so we can be controversial/contrarian/elitist/whatever. These days, I'm starting to think it's the other way around.

Michael Smith's name sounds familiar, is he one of those guys heavily into current Japan?

I thought he worked for ESPN.

 

Anyway people are going to whine regardless so fuck em.

I swear to God if I read stunning grover talk about the goddamn 8/8/88 Inoki/Fujinami match anymore I'm going Elvis on my screen. Jesus.

I think he might be autistic or something.

I have never seen 8/8/88 before. That said, I am kinda starting to wish it became the new match #175 or #176 or something and people started shitting on it the same way they have been shitting on the Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid matches.

It was a historic match and Meltz loved it but if the panel didn't agree on it being on the set then it just didn't make it. Case closed. I hope that me, SLL, & shoe don't have to go through this shit with Texas.

I'm guessing all of your more obvious Texas picks (the Flair/Kerry matches, a lot of Von Erichs/Freebirds matches, the Kerry & Kevin/Dynamic Duo matches, Gordy/Khan) are all going to make the set pretty easily. Only bone of contention I see is if we don't include enough David Von Erich matches to appease the folks who believe the "David was the best Von Erich" myth, and considering we only have about two years worth of his work, I'm thinking he'll be pretty well represented anyway. Texas will be more likely to have people bitching about what we put on than about what we left off. Probably will be a bunch of people not actually taking part in the project bitching about how we are only praising Kerry & Kevin more than David to look cool and trick other people into liking them and what have you. But if early reactions to leaked information about the set are any indication, I think it will be well-received.

Naylor's going to get on you guys for the lack of Checkmate Tony Charles.

I have seen, I think, two Checkmate matches on all the discs I have watched so far. One is the $10,000 on a pole battle royale. The other is a tag with Magic Dragon against Kerry and Adias. I liked it more than Kris and shoe did, I thought Checkmate looked good if unspectacular. Still, it is a match with both Brian Adias and Magic Dragon. Kerry was great, but he was not a miracle worker.

 

That's about it. There hasn't been a lot of Checkmate footage to put on the set in the first place. I mean, for guys with limited footage on these discs, really more interested in seeing more 80's Texas Iron Mike Sharpe than in Checkmate. But regardless, that's just what we have to work with. And besides, arguments with Naylor are usually fun. Arguments with smkelly, not so much.

Iron Mike Sharpe only worked that one match for World Class.

Well, you can bump Checkmate up the list, then.

Man that Floyd guy has terrible fucking taste. His little "Master plan to mess up the results posts" with the Dr. Evil avatar are some of the gayest shit ever.

Hahahaha... I like Floyd normally but some of his choices are pretty bad... others not so bad.

Grover is apparently determined to comment on every match twice, regardless of whether he has anything to say.

I put a stop to that through suggestive reasoning.

 

My favorite poster of all time is Resident Evil. that dumbass is still defending TM-DK. I should post the Benoit-Sasuke thread from KO and troll him that way. It might be the final straw in him being committed.

 

Oh, and I am still not satisfied with Tim's response to the Andre-Hansen ranking. I guess I'll have to troll his radio show next time around.

Resident Evil actually sent me PMs to tell me how much he hates Jerry Lawler because he refuses to discuss him on the board:

 

I don't want to talk about Lawler on the board but I will a little here since you asked and it's courteous to respond.

 

My problem with Lawler is that he just maybe the the fakest wrestler I've ever seen. Everyhting about him screams fake to me wether it's heel or face. I don't buy him being champ, I don't buy him being athletic, I hate his body language and I don't like his wrestling style at all. He just gives off this incredibly fake aura to me. I don't even like his punches. Even when he's out of the ring off camera he comes off as this non trustworthy person. Very fake. The kind of person you would never leave your kids around. You ever get those good and bad vibes around certain people?

 

I can't even watch his matches because they do nothing for me so I can hardly ever debate them. I don't want to. He had the worse match on the New Japan History tape against Fujinami which I beleive is part of this project. That match against Dundee he had this year was everything I hate about wrestling. He arguably had Benoit's worse match ever in 93 or 94 and I've almost watched them all. The whole feud with Bret in the WWF was horrible comedy and not the fun kind either. He even managed to almost ruin the sharpshooter. His announcing is horrible and his attempts at comedy there are cringeworthy to me. Nothing is taken seriously.

 

I think you like him? so that's great but he does absolutely nothing for me.

 

Take care man.

I wasn't really asking for your take on Lawler. I know what it is and what your rationale for it is. I don't agree with it, but that's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors of ice cream.

 

I bring up Lawler because....

 

1. I know how you feel about him

2. Practically all of your defenses of Sayama and Dynamite apply equally or moreso to Lawler

 

Seriously, "It still is one of the best matches of all time and the fact that some can't realise that really shows how out of touch we smarks have become in analysing objectively what creates emotion in the fan base especially for that time period." Jerry Lawler knew how to create emotion in an audience. Did it as well (probably better, and definitely for longer, but I'll be generous here) as Sayama and Dynamite did. Yet you can hate Lawler and not be an "out of touch" "smark" who doesn't understand "how to create emotion in an audience". If Sayama and Dynamite - who are Lawler's objective inferiors in this regard - are criticized, it's a WKO conspiracy and you cry foul. That's a huge double standard that you seem to be oblivious to. I mean, you tend to come off as psychotic to begin with (not saying this as an insult - you legitimately seem to suffer from some degree of psychosis), not totally shocked that you don't/can't see how outlandish some of the things you're saying are. My hope is that by drawing comparisons to Lawler you might realize that your vociferous defenses of Sayama and Dynamite apply just as well - or better - to your least favorite wrestler ever, and you might see why your arguments aren't holding a lot of weight with other posters.

I think a lot of people could have been put into Lawler's spot and done a better job. Marketing and booking and bonding over time are powerful forces to be dealt with. They can create emotion on their own.

 

But yeah, Lawler can create emotion in some people. There's no doubt of that but to me he doesn't really create anything for me besides me wanting to roll my eyes to the back of my head. This is the case for other people as well and I think some Lawler fans fail t realise this. To me, he came off as one of those over the top annoying cartoon heels you'd see in the eighties like Bebop or Rocksteady or those two (loveable though) clowns from the "original" US Power Rangers.

 

Also, if Lawler was so terrific, than why did Memphis go downhill over time?

So, for the record, Lawler sucked because he was really fake, he had marketing and booking on his side, and he failed as a long-term draw....as opposed to Satoru Sayama.

 

Also this:

 

As long as I'm on my soapbox, I think people these days also judge from an art perspective too much and/or what they want to see instead of accepting the match as "Real" and than judging it on those merits.

I don't even know how you respond to something like that.

Awesome. He didn't even acknowledge that you called him a fucking psycho.

 

To me, he came off as one of those over the top annoying cartoon heels you'd see in the eighties like Bebop or Rocksteady or those two (loveable though) clowns from the "original" US Power Rangers.

I don't think he sees the irony in this comment.

Also, if Lawler was so terrific, than why did Memphis go downhill over time?

The territory that would generally draw much less with him not on the card and lasted much, much, MUCH longer than the next longest lasting post-cable territories? That Memphis? I get the feeling he may not understand how territories declined over time at least in part because his beloved home territory catered to his beloved NJPW junior style more and more as it died a horrible prolonged death. He's also completely insane (and I love that he ignored you calling him out on that), but you know what I mean.

 

Also:

 

He previously said he liked Lawler-Benoit and then ignored the reply where I pointed out that it was a somewhat forumulaic Lawler match where Benoit didn't look to contribute much at all.

 

"Jerry Lawler is a bad wrestler because you wouldn't trust him around children"...coming from the Chris The Babbykiller's #1 fan.

 

"He even managed to almost ruin the sharpshooter" when in their most famous match Bret put legit pressure on it.

 

I can get the bumbling cartoon villain claim for WWF Lawler but that comment makes it pretty clear that he's watched little to no Memphis Lawler.

The plot thickens....

 

I think a lot of people could have been put into Lawler's spot and done a better job. Marketing and booking and bonding over time are powerful forces to be dealt with. They can create emotion on their own.

As opposed to Tiger Mask, who had no marketing and booking backing him up. What? In fact, that was another bit of rationale you used in defense of Tiger Mask - how he was booked. For Lawler, it's a negative, for Sayama it's a positive...it's a double standard.

 

I think there's a good argument to be made that you could have put someone else under the hood as Tiger Mask and it would have worked as well or better. I don't make that argument because I don't judge things by what could have happened, only by what did.

........ And I would completely disagree. Yes, you can put someone else underneath the hood but it never would have been close to the majic Sayama worked. As far as the booking goes, Sayama worked with it took the ball and ran with it.

 

Likewise, you can replace Lawler with lots of different wrestlers and they would've done a better job. Sayama included.

 

But yeah, Lawler can create emotion in some people. There's no doubt of that but to me he doesn't really create anything for me besides me wanting to roll my eyes to the back of my head. This is the case for other people as well and I think some Lawler fans fail t realise this.

And Tiger Mask can create emotion in some people. There's no doubt of that, but to others, he just makes them roll their eyes. With Lawler, it's OK to disagree, but with Sayama, it's not? Double standard.

Sayama didn't make too many people roll their eyes. In 99% of the people he made them pop out of their head with amazement.

 

With Lawler, athough the comparison is not totally accurate I'm going to compare him to Hogan or Cena. Hogan was great for the WWF but he also made people watch the NWA or switch off their WWF sets (WCW too) because his wrestling was annoying to some. Cena and I like Cena's in ring work, don't get me wrong, often looks horribly awkard in the ring and has the same effect on some of the audience.

 

Lawler I believe also has the same effect on some of the audience. How much of it is hard to say but his over the top horrible acting and a boring wrestling style makes people roll their eyes. Not for everyone but for some definitely yes.

 

Also, if Lawler was so terrific, than why did Memphis go downhill over time?

You're seriously using long-term success as a means to bash Jerry Lawler while defending Satoru Sayama?

 

Seriously, Memphis still runs shows today. None of the other territories can say that. I've liked a bunch of stuff I've seen in Real Japan, and I like fat, old Sayama more than I liked him in his prime. But I wouldn't point to Real Japan as evidence that Sayama has some kind of long-term staying power that Lawler doesn't.

What I am saying is that the bandwagon rebel JERRY LAWLER BEST FACE EVER!!!!!! fans are to be believed than he should be still main eventing in front of soccer stadiums.

 

Double standard. Huge double standard.

 

What's troubling is that you could avoid all of this very easily without having to change your positions, simply by basing your arguments around your subjective preference for the TM/DK matches, rather than harping on their objective superiority. I mean, that's what everyone else is doing. That's what your you're supposed to be doing, in fact. It's about how much you enjoy the match, not about whether it made money or popped the crowd or whatever. I don't even know why you're going this route, since your anti-Lawler stance is clearly based in subjective dislike rather than any objective failures as a wrestler. You're capable of saying "Lawler creates emotion in a crowd, but I don't like him because he looks too fake". You're able to render a judgment of him independently of what the crowd thinks. With Sayama and Dynamite, you and the crowd agree, but I'm inclined to think you don't like it simply because of the crowd. You liked it for your own subjective reasons, and the crowd liked it too, probably for the same or similar reasons. Whatever those reasons are, even if nobody else in the thread agrees with you, that's what you want to defend the match with. "They created emotion in the crowd" forces unflattering comparisons to Lawler. "They created emotion in me" will resonate with people.

I never did any comparing to Lawler in that thread. You're the one who brought him up there, remember? I really, really don't like talking about him. It's just a waste of time......

 

ANd my dislike on Lawler is based on his failures as a wrestler. Completely fake, uses punches too much in a wrestling match to the point where they mean nothing, has the stupidest nonsensical move in history in the middle rope fist drop and does nothing engaging.

 

Oh, and whatever you do....

As long as I'm on my soapbox, I think people these days also judge from an art perspective too much and/or what they want to see instead of accepting the match as "Real" and than judging it on those merits.

....do not go down this road. Trust me. You will thank me for this.

 

I'll go down whatever road I want. Basically what it means is people not accepting the reality in front of them and letting themselves get caught up in the moment.

 

Take care. Enjoy the wrestling.