Then that promoter isn't very bright. It's like a warehouse banning the forklift because an employee floored it by accident one day and crashed into a wall.

If Yoshi Tatsu was stupid enough to not tuck his head in, why should it fall on Styles shoulders?

It's like a warehouse banning a specific kind of forklift that offers marginal to no advantage over any other forklift because user error that runs contrary to their instincts of how to use a forklift has caused a number of people to floor it by accident and crash into a wall.

Then that promoter isn't very bright. It's like a warehouse banning the forklift because an employee floored it by accident one day and crashed into a wall.

 

If Yoshi Tatsu was stupid enough to not tuck his head in, why should it fall on Styles shoulders?

 

The issue with people getting hurt is that they DO tuck their chin when they're not supposed to. It's supposed to be taken completely flat, with the head bending back if anything

It's like a warehouse banning a specific kind of forklift that offers marginal to no advantage over any other forklift because user error that runs contrary to their instincts of how to use a forklift has caused a number of people to floor it by accident and crash into a wall.

We used to have a forklift at my job that didn't have a gear shift for forwards and backwards, the gas pedal was really big and if you pushed it on one side it was forward and the other side was reverse. We didn't keep that forklift very long.

What are his qualifications for having worked in NA? Because you could either include all of Chono, Hashimoto, Jumbo, Kawada, Kobashi, and Misawa, or not include them and throw Liger out because of the Summit '90 show.

 

Also, and it's obscenely obscure so no fault to Dave, but Abby had a WWWF match against Lil' Abner Osbourne in 1972, though it took me under a minute of research to find it, unless that goes out with the bathwater because it was still Vince Sr.'s company.

 

I was curious about this when the topic came up earlier this week and did some research on Abby.

 

Apparently the shows he worked in 72 were in Pittsburgh, which wasn't a WWWF town at that point. The town was run by Pedro Martinez for the NWF promotion which also ran Buffalo and Cleveland. The Pittsburgh shows used some regular WWWF talent, primarily Bruno (when Morales was champ and Bruno a freelancer on sabbatical from WWWF), Dominic DeNucci, Victor Rivera, Tony Parisi and Baron Mikel Scicluna. The town was sold back to Vince Sr. somewhere around the time Bruno won the title again in December 73

 

I was surprised he missed Bock being in that legends battle royale, because Thesz being in it and winning is the only thing that keeps him off that list to my knowledge

Unconnected to anything.

 

As I was walking back to my office just now, it occurred to me just how much I LOVE the way Flair says "Wahoo McDANiel" when he's listing off all the guys he's faced in promos.

 

The way his voice goes high and almost breaks at the "el" part. Flair is such a great fucking promo.

 

EDIT: Shit, this was meant to go in "Comments without a thread"

 

What are his qualifications for having worked in NA? Because you could either include all of Chono, Hashimoto, Jumbo, Kawada, Kobashi, and Misawa, or not include them and throw Liger out because of the Summit '90 show.

 

Also, and it's obscenely obscure so no fault to Dave, but Abby had a WWWF match against Lil' Abner Osbourne in 1972, though it took me under a minute of research to find it, unless that goes out with the bathwater because it was still Vince Sr.'s company.

I was curious about this when the topic came up earlier this week and did some research on Abby.

 

Apparently the shows he worked in 72 were in Pittsburgh, which wasn't a WWWF town at that point. The town was run by Pedro Martinez for the NWF promotion which also ran Buffalo and Cleveland. The Pittsburgh shows used some regular WWWF talent, primarily Bruno (when Morales was champ and Bruno a freelancer on sabbatical from WWWF), Dominic DeNucci, Victor Rivera, Tony Parisi and Baron Mikel Scicluna. The town was sold back to Vince Sr. somewhere around the time Bruno won the title again in December 73

 

As far as I know Vince Sr was a bit like Sam Muchnick in that he didn't like any nonsense and St. Louis wouldn't use Abby because they saw him as a circus act. Senior vetoed using Andy Kaufman. Although WWWF had some colourful characters (Albano, Grand Wizard, etc.), they didn't have many (or ANY) wrestlers who were considered "gimmick guys".

 

Did Sheik ever work in WWF?

Yes. He had runs with Bruno in the late '60s and one with Pedro in '72.

If people keep getting hurt by it, whose fault it is is really beside the point.

 

Two people have been hurt by it, and it's been performed by Styles and others thousands of times. The problem in this case is with the two people who didn't take the move correctly. They are professionals and they messed up. I know that Tatsu has taken responsibility, but I believe Lionheart places the blame on AJ.

Yes. He had runs with Bruno in the late '60s and one with Pedro in '72.

 

The Abby thing is a bit weird thinking about it.

 

You'd think he'd be a perfect Bruno or Pedro opponent. I wonder why they never brought him in, any ideas?

 

I mean considering they brought in guys like Bobby Duncum and Tor Kamata.

Another one might be Bill Dundee. If you read the 4/11/1975 results for North Attleboro here: http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/75.htm, there is a Bill Dundee listed, but there was also a Gene Dundee who is listed on several cards that year. So I assume it's a typo.

 

Manny Fernandez is also a possibility. I know Stan Lane had an announcing gig with WWF, but was he ever "in the ring"?

 

(Edit: Stan Lane was in the ring for this Yokozuna interview (18 min mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvmStnQXYko

 

Then that promoter isn't very bright. It's like a warehouse banning the forklift because an employee floored it by accident one day and crashed into a wall.

 

If Yoshi Tatsu was stupid enough to not tuck his head in, why should it fall on Styles shoulders?

 

The issue with people getting hurt is that they DO tuck their chin when they're not supposed to. It's supposed to be taken completely flat, with the head bending back if anything

 

Yeah, I flubbed that one. Still, it seems odd that with all wrist-clutch pumphandle spinning whatevers, it's apparently difficult for some people to remember, "hey, on my finish, don't tuck your head in." Fucking half-trained WWE divas were able to take it from Michelle McCool without any type of injury.

 

If people keep getting hurt by it, whose fault it is is really beside the point.

 

Two people have been hurt by it, and it's been performed by Styles and others thousands of times. The problem in this case is with the two people who didn't take the move correctly. They are professionals and they messed up. I know that Tatsu has taken responsibility, but I believe Lionheart places the blame on AJ.

 

 

It's not just two people who have been hurt by it, as Roderick Strong injured his neck from taking the move incorrectly earlier this year. Moreover, there's been four other videotaped occasions where the move was botched by people tucking their heads and probably more we're not even aware about.

I saw Chris Hero do the Styles Clash 12 years (or so ago) live where the guy taking the thing probably did take it wrong as well (I can only assume, I have never seen footage after the fact) and broke his neck (and ending his career). The guy could at first not move his legs and the show had to be stopped.

But we're not taking about the Pedigree Jobber in 1995 where the move was new, AJ has been on TV doing that move for twelve years. You can talk about "instinct" all you want (though the nearest bump would be a moonsault where you don't tuck your head - you do handstand bumps rolling forward onto your back not the other way), it's a simple move to take and one of the slightest finisher bumps out there.

Did Sheik ever work in WWF?

http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/60smsg.htm

 

Haystacks Calhoun defeated the Sheik via disqualification at 6:20 after taking a camera away from a ringside photographer and smashing it to the mat; a small riot took place as Sheik made his way backstage after the bout which resulted in an old woman in attendance being trampled; as a result of the incident, the Sheik was banned from MSG

The Sheik wrestled Morales in Boston a few times in '72. But being barred from MSG must have crippled his value to the WWWF.

A friend of mine worked AJ a few years back, and was scared shitless to take the Styles Clash. When Styles picked him up, he just froze and AJ couldn't do the stepover, so AJ just tombstoned him and that was the finish.

It looks like NJPW World is turning Dave into one of us. I love it! Check out his Twitter if you don't know what I mean.

Amazing what happens when you actually watch the footage.

It looks like NJPW World is turning Dave into one of us. I love it! Check out his Twitter if you don't know what I mean.

 

I'd love to hear Dave talk again broach the subject of reevaluating old footage. Since World launched that's pretty much all he's been doing. It's a pretty seismic shift from someone who once directly told me that reevaluating old footage was a waste of time because you have to be in the moment to get a match.

Him and Alvarez discussed it on a recent podcast. Alvarez talks about how he's been watching old footage lately. He's been watching Raws and Nitros. Alvarez says that their's a ton to learn from by watching old footage. Dave did his regular talking point, but did say watching wrestling today is like watching a dance. While older stuff seemed much more emotional and the wrestlers weren't dancing, they were fighting. These aren't quotes but from what I remember. Dave says older footage shows guys doing stuff in a match to a guy he doesn't like in the course of a wrestling match.

Is it likely Dave has WWE footage that isnt in circulation?

I'm starting to doubt that very much, although it's possible.

One of Dave's better tweets recently

 

 

Dave Meltzer @davemeltzerWON · 15h 15 hours ago

Doesn't that Southern Comfort bartender look like Kevin Von Erich at 21 if Kevin was 150 pounds?

Is it likely Dave has WWE footage that isnt in circulation?

 

He has the Bret vs Tom Magee match, at least.