October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484757 Less people watched the AWA in 1987-1988 than Smackdown at any point. Yep. Hennig MIGHT be the guy with the worst record as a main event draw to ever appear on the ballot. I'm trying to think offhand of who would be worse.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484759 Less people watched the AWA in 1987-1988 than Smackdown at any point. Yep. Hennig MIGHT be the guy with the worst record as a main event draw to ever appear on the ballot. I'm trying to think offhand of who would be worse. HHH and Angle were both pretty spotty as draws. Angle bombed so badly so quickly in 2001 that they did the hotshot back to Austin.
October 10, 201113 yr Author comment_5484760 Yes, but there's no way HHH is a weaker candidate than Curt Hennig. He's overrated as a draw, but he has posted some big numbers which are really difficult to deny. Angle ... yeah, probably among the worst HOF entrants. If he was just eligible for the first time this year, I don't think he'd get in so easily, and I'm curious if Dave would even push for him.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484761 Angle and Ultimo are obviously the two worst guys in the Hall. Still as a draw do I think Angle is weaker than Hennig? Offhand I don't know of a reason to believe that.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484763 Looking over the list. Angle, Undertaker, Michaels and Steamboat are the weakest candidates as far as drawing power goes. I think Undertaker is probably the worst as there's solid numbers to back his case up for being a poor draw on PPV.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484764 Less people watched the AWA in 1987-1988 than Smackdown at any point. Yep. Hennig MIGHT be the guy with the worst record as a main event draw to ever appear on the ballot. I'm trying to think offhand of who would be worse. Well... there aren't too many 10K houses that Hase drew. Beinging in the main event of a G1 show that drew more than 10K doesn't mean *Hase* drew it. Lord knows I wasn't putting over Kosh as being a "drew" for all the G1 main events he had: he was a good hand trusted with the spot to close some of the shows with good matches. Then again, it might not be a good idea to look too closely at what Hash-Hase drew at Sumo Hall in the G1. Kind of surprising. John
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484765 Looking over the list. Angle, Undertaker, Michaels and Steamboat are the weakest candidates as far as drawing power goes. I think Undertaker is probably the worst as there's solid numbers to back his case up for being a poor draw on PPV. All of those guys had at least some success at the top of the card. Hennig had no success at the top of the card that I know of.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484766 Looking over the list. Angle, Undertaker, Michaels and Steamboat are the weakest candidates as far as drawing power goes. I think Undertaker is probably the worst as there's solid numbers to back his case up for being a poor draw on PPV. Actually, there are some positive numbers for Taker. It's a mixed bag at times, and since he's been around forever there it's as easy to find bad numbers as good ones. But there are good ones. That Taker vs Taker thing did a surprising number. Rumble '96 did good business, and I've always thought Bret-Taker (with the Nash aspect of the feud) playing a role in it as much as the Rumble and Shawn's vaunted return (it's not like he was out that long). Shawn probably has things he can point to. Steamboat, as others have or will point out, did business with Slaughter in the Final Countdown... really huge business for the times. FWIW, it's not like Funaki drew in Pancrase consistently. Rings and UWFi did better business at their peaks than Pancrase, and in terms of sustaining that peak across a number of shows and a number of years. My choice for worst WON HOF: Funaki. Sakuraba is up there as well, since both are MMA candidates, not Pro Wrestling Candidates. As bad as people think Dragon is, he's got nothing on two guys who did very little of note in Pro Wrestling. Yeah... I know Funaki "drew" in UWF 2.0. There was nothing groundbreaking about it as the company was already popping similar gates going back. The ground breaking drawing was Maeda-Takada. Beyond that, no one argued that Funaki should be in the HOF based on his UWF 2.0 and PWFG accomplishments. John
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484770 Also - and I do think you have to say Mania as a whole is the draw - but for the last three years Taker v. whoever has been the most heavily promoted match on the biggest show of the year. Again not sure how much credit you can give Taker for that, but "the streak" being a synonym with shows that have drawn huge gates is FAR more than Hennig has to offer. I don't know enough about Funaki to have an opinion on that thought he has always struck me as an "odd" candidate.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484771 I'd go with Funaki over Sakuraba because at least Funaki was a pro wrestler specifically trying to turn pro wrestling into a legitimate sport. Yes, he also is better for an MMA HOF but I think he has more historical importance "as a pro wrestler" than Sakuraba.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484773 Angle ... yeah, probably among the worst HOF entrants. If he was just eligible for the first time this year, I don't think he'd get in so easily, and I'm curious if Dave would even push for him. I remember Dave on the Board saying that people who argued against Angle's HOF induction must feel silly now. Like his TNA run has made him an inarguable candidate.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484776 Angle ... yeah, probably among the worst HOF entrants. If he was just eligible for the first time this year, I don't think he'd get in so easily, and I'm curious if Dave would even push for him. Dave clearly still thinks very highly of Angle's work, and would probably pimp him as the best US worker of the past 12 years as a way of justifying him as an entrant. I don't think he'd get in on the first try if this was his first year on the ballot, but I do think he'd be getting pimped just as hard as Edge.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484777 Dave overrates Kurt beyond belief today so he would be pimping him hard if he was on the ballot for the first time today.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484780 Looking over the list. Angle, Undertaker, Michaels and Steamboat are the weakest candidates as far as drawing power goes. I think Undertaker is probably the worst as there's solid numbers to back his case up for being a poor draw on PPV. Actually, there are some positive numbers for Taker. It's a mixed bag at times, and since he's been around forever there it's as easy to find bad numbers as good ones. But there are good ones. That Taker vs Taker thing did a surprising number. Rumble '96 did good business, and I've always thought Bret-Taker (with the Nash aspect of the feud) playing a role in it as much as the Rumble and Shawn's vaunted return (it's not like he was out that long). After a certain point, how much credit do we give to Taker for Manias that drew. I know he main evented XIII and that didn't go so well but the Taker/Kane feud was a big part of the lead up to XIV. He had a high profile match at XVII. And XXI as well with Randy where they really started to play up the streak. As for Kurt I still think it's a combo of the legitimacy thing that pros can't get enough of because it's carny as hell and the fact that Angle does this all out action style that Dave's always loved.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484781 Here's what Dave wrote last year after someone bumped a thread from 2007 questioning why Angle is in the HOF. "Do the people in the first few pages realize that with the benefit of hindsight how absolutely little about wrestling they understood three years ago? The good thing is you can always learn. The ones who think they were right at the time three years later, well, there was no hope for them to begin with."
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484783 I would have fewer problems with Brock Lesnar getting in than I do with Angle and would have with Edge.
October 10, 201113 yr comment_5484790 Kurt Angle won the PS50. I know it's PowerSlam, but it just goes to show that many people are still heavily hitting the bong on him as a worker. That said, I don't have any problem with Angle now being in the HOF, because enough people believed he was the best worker in the world and one of the best for long enough that I can at least understand why he got in. Edge is harder to justify, as though he was praised as being very good in some circles, he never had Kurt's rep.
October 11, 201113 yr comment_5484796 Here's what Dave wrote last year after someone bumped a thread from 2007 questioning why Angle is in the HOF. "Do the people in the first few pages realize that with the benefit of hindsight how absolutely little about wrestling they understood three years ago? The good thing is you can always learn. The ones who think they were right at the time three years later, well, there was no hope for them to begin with." Remarkable. I don't know what is worse the fact that Dave thinks Angle's TNA work is something that can be held up as the be all end all, or the fact that Dave doesn't feel it is worth noting that this guy who got in on a less than five year career, went to the secondary promotion at the height of his popularity and did jack shit to help pop business in any meaningful long term way.
October 11, 201113 yr comment_5484809 Keith: where's Dave's classic "respecting other people's views" quote? John
October 11, 201113 yr comment_5484816 When you grow up, you realize that intolerance of other people's divergent opinions, which was certainly a trait I had, is a bad vice.
October 11, 201113 yr comment_5484820 When you grow up, you realize that intolerance of other people's divergent opinions, which was certainly a trait I had, is a bad vice. What I've learned from this is that Dave does not see himself as a grown up
October 11, 201113 yr comment_5484832 I don't know what is worse the fact that Dave thinks Angle's TNA work is something that can be held up as the be all end all, or the fact that Dave doesn't feel it is worth noting that this guy who got in on a less than five year career, went to the secondary promotion at the height of his popularity and did jack shit to help pop business in any meaningful long term way. To be fair, I don't really hold it against Kurt that he couldn't sustain his marketability with Vince Russo booking him from face to heel to tweener on a weekly basis and burning out a lengthy feud with Samoa Joe in about six weeks. Bringing back Vince Russo the same week they signed Kurt Angle was going to ensure that Angle "did jack shit to help pop business in any meaningful long term way", because Russo's bad booking was inevitably going to kill all the momentum he had coming in.
October 11, 201113 yr comment_5484835 Perhaps. But the reality is he did nothing of note. Which for someone with his perceived value is pretty damning.
Create an account or sign in to comment